D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

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Duk Lee

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Duk Lee » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:32 am

Hello Ned and Stewart,

Thank you for welcoming me in this forum.
Your second videos prove to be definitely better. I especially like your dynamic contrast at a couple of places.
Thank you also for the information on trigger finger.
Applying "Apoyando" on Atoye together with damping base notes is a challenge to me, but I am trying to get it comfortable.

Just to share...... yesterday while I was reading the book "Pumping Nylon" by Scott Tennent, I realized that I have been filing my finger nails in a wrong way.
After correction, I felt lot smoother in plucking.

I would love to talk to you for the remainder of the lessons.

-duk

Porgy_M

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Porgy_M » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:18 pm

Don't have a way of uploading any video of my practice - have a desktop with no little eagle eye camera. But I am learning a lot from the comments on the uploaded ones. The apoyando is coming a little easier, but I am having a great deal of trouble damping the notes where indicated on the score. On the videos I couldn't tell whether dampening was going on or not. But they all sounded wonderful. I wonder if on the uploads, people might mention what kind of guitar and strings they are using.... it could be also a learning experience as well. Thanks for a great set of lessons.

Duk Lee

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Duk Lee » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:00 pm

Hello Porgy,

My guitar is made by the Luthier "Thomas Prisloe" and string on it is Pro-Arte EJ45C.

Damping with thump is challenging to everyone, especially when it is new. I am not good or perfect in it, but I am getting more comfortable in doing it only through SLOW practices, and letting my thump finger muscle remember what to do between plucking different notes. It seems that "being slow" is the key again in developing damping techniques.

Hope someday we can hear your playing, at least in sound.
Thanks.

-duk

Michael Collings
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:58 pm
Location: Sylva, North Carolina

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Michael Collings » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:40 pm

Sorry in advance for the "bulk" reply...

Richard, nice job on Atoye--despite the delay in the film it seemed that your right hand was much more confident--this came out in your tone too.

Stewart, it seems like the right hand exercises are paying off. Your second version of Atoye was a big improvement, especially in your tone and legato phrasing. Hats off to you for attempting Solearas at tempo. I do agree with Ned that it's better to strive for a good technique rather than speed, but my experience is that if I don't get a taste of the tempo I'm shooting for, then I never get there! It seems like you're conscious about your posture so perhaps it goes without saying that it was better in your latest Atoye than Solearas. One other suggestion is to strive for a good tone with you "a" finger when doing free strokes. That high e is hard to achieve a full sound on, but it is possible.

Ned, I really like your style! Your right hand/arm position is reminiscent of Segovia and Bream--a nice full sound too. Two things to watch out for: your left hand middle finger wants to stiffen up quite often. This is going to slow you down significantly in the long run. Also, you mentioned that the right hand exercises tire out your hand. It seems like your nails are giving a lot of resistance. This is great for volume but bad when trying to make a melody "connected" or legato--I'm referring mostly to your Atoye here. It is worth trying to shape your nails so that your fingers slice through the strings without snagging.

Michael

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Jack Jarrett » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:50 am

Hello Everyone,
After a week sunning in Mexico it is back to work for me here where the temps are dipping into the low teens! I must confess I did not get many opportunities to play much, even though I drug my guitar down there, but I did get a couple of days practice in, so I thought I would upload my first versions of A Toye and Soleares. These are mp3's so they are mostly for comparison sake to see if I can improve in a week or so.
Thanks in advance for all comments.
Jack
A Toye.mp3
Soleares.mp3
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Ned Henderson

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Ned Henderson » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:18 pm

Dear Michael

:merci:
Michael Collings wrote:Ned, I really like your style! Your right hand/arm position is reminiscent of Segovia and Bream--a nice full sound too
It reminds me of a couple of quotations...they say "A cat may look at a king" . There is also the Oscar Wilde quotation: “We are all lying the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars”. :lol:
Anyway I am flattered to be mentioned in the same sentence as two of my guitar heroes.
Your comments about the right hand are helpful, particularly the tensing of the middle finger.I think you are right too about the excessive resistance in apoyando/rest stroke. although I think the problem is possible due to the position of the right hand and fingers rather than nail profile. Anyway I am slowly working on it, I find apoyando incredibly challenging but am trying to practice all the more on it.

Hello Porgy by the way and welcome to our little (and hopefully, growing) group....my guitar is made by Admira. It is a fairly inexpensive spanish guitar which I bought from a local music shop thirty years ago. I am still fond of it although I sometimes daydream about buying another guitar. We'll see! The guitar strings I am using are Pro Arte. Think it is about time I put some new ones on!

arrivederci

Ned H.

Ned Henderson

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Ned Henderson » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:37 pm

Hi Jack

Good to hear your practice. A Toye sounded good, maybe a little hesitant at first or perhaps the right hand is slightly inconsistent to begin with so that one or two notes almost drop out - though I am not one to talk, your rest stroke is pretty steady compared with mine...and it gets better as you find your way in to the piece. I particularly enjoyed your grace notes too.

In Soleares I enjoyed your tone and felt that the tune came through, but it may be worth counting or trying a metronome for a few practice sessions (which I have been doing for a little while) to look for a more consistent tempo. Bearing in mind this was your first posting this lesson, it sounded really good and I look forward to hearing your follow up.

Good practice!

Ned H.

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Jack Jarrett » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:05 am

Thanks Ned for your advice and comments. The Atoye was a quick first take and I just wanted it posted in case something should come up and I am left with nothing to submit.I have gone back and listened to the Delcamp version and several of the other posts and realized that the ornaments are a little different than what I tried, so I have worked on doing those differently. And I have been dilligent at increasing my speed for Soleares, also with the aid of a metronome.It does help to maintain a steady tempo and it made me aware of how I am inconsistent with my rythm.Thanks for that tip.

I was going to suggest to you an additional exercise to help with your Apoyando.I have pulled out my Segovia Diatonic scales, and have been practicing those repeatedly using rest stroke. This has helped me as the repetitiveness really locks that feeling in of how to strike the string and follow through to land on the next string.I think it is helping me to increase my speed with apoyando as well, and think it is a great way to work on proper left hand position as well.
Jack

Michael Collings
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:58 pm
Location: Sylva, North Carolina

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Michael Collings » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:41 pm

If anyone is interested I posted a new video on D02 lesson 1. It involves some observations about rest strokes that I put together from watching M. Delcamp's videos.

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=54054&p=610360#p610360

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Jack Jarrett » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:22 am

Here are my submissions for our exercises. I struggled a little with Atoye, camera pressure, and I pushed myself for a fast tempo with Soleares, so they are flawed but better than nothing.
Jack

Michael, I will check out your video as soon as I finish uploading!Thanks
[media]https://youtu.be/sIMKEAJKzLk[/media]
[media]https://youtu.be/qd5vGOJx2OI[/media]

Ned Henderson

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Ned Henderson » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:15 pm

Dear Fellow Students

Here is my second attempt at A Toye. I am still having a struggle with apoyando but some practices go better than others, this was a fairly average and representative selection. Thanks to Michael and Jack for the advice and tips you have offered, I appreciate it...I am having a go at the practice you demonstrated on video Michael, it is slowly improving but I still have too much pressure on/ resistance from the strings. This may be a mixture of right hand position being less than optimal and my nails, right hand still growing back after I split one of them, I am less accustomed to playing with finger tips and find it harder....anyway no excuses, it's all learning.
Thanks for any further comments or advice any of you may have.
[media]https://youtu.be/wkwmfRtAnmM[/media]

Ned H.

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Jack Jarrett » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:20 am

Hi Ned,
First I have to admit that this computer is slow, still running Windows ME, so the video is not very good and not synched with the audio, but the audio was good enough for me to realize that you really have some nice sounding ornaments. I really like how you are turning this somewhat average sounding piece into something Baroque and giving it a lively sound.

As far as the difficulty you seem to have with Apoyando stroke, perhaps it could be related to how hard you are striking the strings.I know with me I tense up more when I really try to get volume and lose some control with how my finger strikes the string.Maybe you could benefit from trying to practice very softly, light touch, concentrating on feeling the finger tip stiking the string right where it meets the fingernail, a little to the left side of the tip, and think about where your finger will land after the follow through. By being gentle and soft, maybe YOU will get that mental connection that I am constantly trying to get. And also I would again suggest repeated exercises with some scales, not that I am a huge fan of them, but have come to believe that repetition of proper technique will benefit us.

I don't know it I am really qualified to offer much advice, but thought maybe these could help.

I hope someone with more years of experience and knowledge will provide some help on these lessons.
Jack

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Jack Jarrett » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:38 am

Michael,
Thanks for the video on rest stroke.I think you were right on with your observations. I know I have let my nails get too long, and now wish I would have trimmed them before posting my video.Too much nail noise! And I can see my hand is not anchored and moving a lot.:(

Ned Henderson

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Ned Henderson » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:29 pm

Jack

I thought that was a really good practice of Soleares - you take it at a good crisp tempo and maintain it throughout, looks like your metronome practice has paid off, which was evident through the section with the two finger tremolo, the most challenging point to hold the tempo steady I think. I would have to look to details to find any faults in it...the only thing I was aware of was that you looked a little tense, understandably, playing a fairly new piece in front of a camera, and I don't doubt the tone and feel improve when you are a little more relaxed. But I am splitting hairs here, really it was very good.
:bravo:

Thanks for your thoughts on RH technique. I am having a go at practice with minimum nail and finger end resistance against the string. It is helpful to concentrate on though challenging for me as I then occasionally miss the string altogether, but I think this will help in time as a focus. Michael's video also gives some useful pointers.

Ned H.

Stewart Doyle

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Stewart Doyle » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:23 pm

Hello everyone,
I made the mistake of thinking this lesson was going to finish this Tuesday (11th) instead of next (18th), so I probably should have left it a little longer before my final attempts. However my work has been getting in the way recently and it's also going to take me away from guitar and computer over the next few days too. It's great to see so many videos and some new students though.
Jack - Since I thought the lesson was about to close I was beginning to wonder where you were - nice to know it was sunny Mexico! I've just viewed one of your videos from Lesson 1 and I think you should be delighted with your progress since then. Your latest videos are excellent and you look far more confident. I think you liked the low camera angle I did for one of my videos, but I actually think it's better to have the camera higher, where the right hand is a bit more visible. I'm not sure if the angle is misleading, but it looks as though your knuckles are aligned a little like mine, and not as parallel to the strings as say...
Ned - Your knuckles do look nicely aligned with the strings. I think Jack might have a point about trying a lighter touch - to me your best tone and control is when you play softer (at around 0:16 and 0:25 in your last A Toye) Nice to see the same sort of glissando(?) finish that marks the end of my Soleares!
Michael - Thanks for the comments and advice about my attempts and I would certainly recommend the video you've posted in D02 Lesson 1 - you are a naturally gifted teacher.
Porgy - You may already know, but if you have a USB port on your desktop you could buy a cheap webcam to record up to say 480p video (incl. sound) for around 5 UK pounds (or even less). Other areas of this site have more information on free tools for editing and advice on uploading video.
Best wishes - Stewart

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