D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

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Jean-François Delcamp
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D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:19 am

Hello everyone,
Please start by downloading the new version of volume D02 that I updated today.
If you are new to the course, please read this message to familiarize yourself with the conditions for participating in the lessons. You should also read the first message in lesson 1, where you will find advice on how to make the most of your study time and on the methods of practising that I recommend.


First we will study some technical exercises from volume D02.
- page 76 Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) GAMMES - SCALE - SCALES – ESCALAS numbers 12, 13, 14.
When changes of position are needed, you will be using the "position shift" technique. Position I is the left hand position where the index finger (1) is placed behind the 1st fret, position V is the hand position where the index (1) is placed behind the fifth fret, etc. The position shift involves moving the left hand along the neck, from position to position, from fret to fret. In the scales we're looking at today, notice that my first finger never leaves the first string, I use it as a guide for my hand. Position shifts are shown by oblique lines linking two fingering indications given for the same finger.
The following videos are for numbers 12, 13 and 14 on page 76. Concentrate your practice on the passages highlighted in yellow, and do your best to perfect the position shift technique.





Next we'll work on three pieces :
- page 11 Juan BOBROWITZ (1785-1845) DANSE POLONAISE
- page 25 Joseph MEISSONNIER (1790-1855) ANDANTE AFFETTUOSO
- page 56 Fernando SOR (1778-1839) ALLEGRETTO N°2 opus 44 :arrow: http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/v ... f=41&t=670






I ask you first to work on all these exercises and pieces for one week and then to post your recordings on the forum for:
- page 76 number 13 Scale of C major with crescendo and decrescendo
- page 56 Fernando SOR (1778-1839) ALLEGRETTO N°2 opus 44


I look forward to hearing you play these exercises and pieces.

I thank Geoff (GeoffB) who has helped in the translation of my lessons into English.

Jean-François
:( + ♫ = :)

Richard Judge

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Richard Judge » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:09 pm

The danse Polonaise has an interesting rhythm.
I found this site which explains the history of the dance which I think gives some context to the piece.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/polish_music/da ... naise.html

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Jack Jarrett » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:42 pm

Thanks for the link Richard.Nice to know a little more about the background of what we are learning.

This set of lessons are fun to play and offer ample opportunity for us to add tone and color to our playing. The additional insight into Sors opus 44 is very informative and is well presented. Thanks M. Delcamp.
Jack

Stewart Doyle

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Stewart Doyle » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:36 pm

Hi everyone, I’m trying to get away from spending too long recording a ‘perfect’ piece so I’ve decided to look at all the pieces this lesson. I'm struggling with the Danse Polonaise (proof below!) so I think it will do me good to work on that. I recorded these first last Sunday morning and suddenly noticed my LH thumb clearly visible. I tried again in the afternoon and improved things, although at the expense of some fluency.
Here are my initial recordings then, along with some initial analysis.

C Major scale
I want to improve this so that my RH thumb moves from string 6 to 4 (a la M. Delcamp) This might help counter the string resonance that starts in string 4 when the higher strings sound.

[media]https://youtu.be/6G7yhvrAwlw[/media]

Fernando Sor opus 44 2

I could make better use of dynamic and tonal contrast on repeated sections and improve the damping.
It's a complete mess towards the end but at least I kept going!

[media]https://youtu.be/A--3LXvp1Ek[/media]

Meissonnier Andante afettuoso

Much better damping needed - very important for this piece I think.
I keep looking at the 4th finger when playing the E on the 2nd string! – Need better awareness of where the strings and frets are!


[media]https://youtu.be/4N3v7Ekr9w4[/media]

Bobrowitz Danse polonaise

There should be a health warning about this one! About 30 seconds will be enough for most people. I've spent about the same time (not much admittedly) on all the pieces but it should be obvious to all that even at the speed I’m playing it I just haven’t got the timing right. I also find it much harder to find the notes. Given that M. Delcamp didn’t specifically ask us to upload this piece I was quite tempted to leave it, but I think any teacher unfortunate enough to listen to this would probably think I need to do something about it!

[media]https://youtu.be/R-_bqiTYzPU[/media]

Ned Henderson

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Ned Henderson » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:24 pm

Hi Stewart

I congratulate you....not so much on the performance as on just getting on with the business of putting your practice online and not wasting too much time and energy on vanity. I won't comment so much on details of the practice as I think you are more or less aware of the areas which need further practice. The one thing that occurs to me is the valuable advice given to me by Martin Suarez/Dragonbones in the last lesson, which I am trying to put into practice...and that is to slow everything down a lot....the same advice comes from M. Delcamp I remember. I think it is better to go slow and focus on one or two technical aspects than to try to play the piece up to speed.
Personally I am finding damping very challenging and can only play some pieces at half the pace or slower than their correct tempo, with the strings damped . Impatience means I sometimes push the tempo and neglect the damping.I keep telling myself to slow down again and again and I would encourage you to try something similar.
Thanks for being the first to post your practice online and good luck, I look forward to seeing your next video.

Ned H.

Richard Judge

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Richard Judge » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:51 pm

I play the polonaise with a stricter 3/4 tempo than M. Delcamp the same as you. Sounds more like a waltz. It was this that prompted me to do the search on the polonaise dance. What is the difference between polonaise and waltz? The polonaise is a walking dance the first step is exagerated followed by two normal steps. I imagine taking a slow stride to the high A i bar 2 then one step for each of the next two bars. (followed by bowing)
Once I can play it cleanly I may start playing with the tempo but this one is also the most troublesome for me.

Your other pieces are already coming on well. You might try placing your music on the left and higher up. This makes switching view between fingers and strings easier. (a tip picked up elsewhere on this site)

Ned Henderson

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Ned Henderson » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:28 pm

[media]https://youtu.be/z5bbfOFlBFg[/media]


Here is my first attempt at Allegretto by Fernando Sor.

Ned

Stewart Doyle

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Stewart Doyle » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:23 pm

Thanks to Ned and Richard for your comments and advice. I will try to see if slowing right down helps the damping. The advice on positioning the music sounds good too, although I might need to find a new place to practice and record.
Well played Ned, I like the way your RH moves to give tonal variation during the phrases. I notice that your LH thumb is visible at the side of the fretboard in this piece. I've seen this in some of my videos and wondered if I should try to 'correct' it. Does anyone have any firm ideas on whether this is a problem or does it not really matter for certain pieces?

Following Richard's advice I've changed the layout for my recordings, so for completeness here are the other scales. (As an aside I notice quite a lot of resonance in the scales e.g. the bottom two strings resonate when the top string sounds in the F major scale - creating a nasty clash with the top F - I might ask about this elsewhere on the site)

F Major scale
[media]https://youtu.be/kwlAxLVLCL8[/media]

D minor scale
[media]https://youtu.be/yH9wPWbKSzA[/media]

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Jack Jarrett » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:43 pm

Thanks for posting Ned and Stewart.
Stewart you look more comfortable in your new position and hopefully this will allow you to play more relaxed.I noticed you had to really move your hand on your scale to go from playing the rest stroke with the fingers to using your thumb. I know I have to try to find a balanced point so I can do the rest stroke using my fingers then my thumb without having to shift the whole hand. I did that by arching my hand more, which caused the knuckles to be more above the strings I'm playing, and the thumb is in a better position to play apoyando. I don't consistently maintain that position, so I've been doing tons of scales to try to lock that in.
And as far as the sympathetic resonance, I use my thumb to dampen the strings that ring, by laying it down.This does take it out of position, but I'm not using it at the time anyway.I don't know if this is proper form, but it seems to work.

How do you like using the guitar support rather than your leg? I thought your Opus 44 was well done by the way.

Ned, I thought your rendition is well on it's way.The only suggestion I might provide would be to really work on the echo of the second measure of each group, by moving your hand position up or down, for contrast, and striking much lighter than the first set. This will make the tune come alive and be more enjoyable to listen to. All in all I thought it sounded good.

Now I need to get something up.
Jack

Ned Henderson

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Ned Henderson » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:48 am

Stewart wrote:I notice that your LH thumb is visible at the side of the fretboard in this piece. I've seen this in some of my videos and wondered if I should try to 'correct' it. Does anyone have any firm ideas on whether this is a problem or does it not really matter for certain pieces?
Hi Stewart
I think it would be a good idea to correct it if you can. My thumb tends to creep around the neck of the guitar. I think it begins with not dropping the left shoulder sufficiently to curl or arch the left wrist and fingers around the neck of the guitar. it's a habit I developed from playing steel string guitar and it tends to cramp and limit the freedom of movement in the LH fingers. They do not come down so vertically on the fretboard and I think the thumb is a bit more "clamped" around the neck, less mobile.
Now I have developed the habit, it is tricky to unlearn it.
I don't think it creates a practical problem in some simple pieces - they still sound ok - but if you develop a habit it becomes hard to alter it. When you want the greater freedom of wrist movement for more challenging pieces, you have developed a bad habit (like me!)

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Jack Jarrett » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:42 am

My turn to get feedback.
These are my initial attempts at the two lessons. I feel like I am playing too loud and need to work on playing more delicately and slower.I realized I forgot to do crescendo and decrescendo on the scale. Aside from the obvious missed notes, what should I be working on? Any suggestions?

C major scale
[media]https://youtu.be/Lh6dZUuQuQw[/media]


Allegreto no 2, Op 44
[media]https://youtu.be/PWv2YYt2XlQ[/media]


Jack
Last edited by Jack Jarrett on Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

Richard Judge

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Richard Judge » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:35 am

I always start feeling bad about posting when others have already posted their contributions and I have offered nothing so far :(
I feel like I am playing too loud and need to work on playing more delicately and slower
Jack, your recordings play quite quietly on my PC and I have to turn them up so maybe your mic could be nearer the guitar. You are using ponticello well to bring out the "echo" but I think you are right that a more delicate stroke will enhance that. I think the tempo is about right.

Stewart you have changed your right hand position in these two scales particularily in the Dminor. Your fingers are quite stretched across the strings. Try keeping your knuckles over the strings and moving your hand to follow your fingers (If that makes sense?). I'm sure you advised me to anchor my thumb in an earlier lesson. This isn't your usual right hand position from your previous postings.

Now I'd best get recording :roll:

Ned Henderson

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Ned Henderson » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:20 pm

Jack Jarrett wrote:My turn to get feedback.
Hi Jack

It was good to see your practice and it looks like the scale and the Sor piece are coming along.

I agree with your comments - it as hard to see quite what leads you to strike or pluck the strings so hard with your RH, perhaps a bit of extra tension or effort to "get it right" for the camera maybe?
My suggestion is the obvious one...slow down your playing of the piece and focus on the RH for a while, varying the volume and the pressure of the RH nails/ fingertips on the strings as you pluck, in order to refine this a bit. Probably practising the scales with crescendo and decrescendo will also help with this.

One thing I liked was the way in which you move quite freely between the bridge and soundhole with the RH while maintaining a sense of your position over the strings.

Best wishes

Ned

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Jack Jarrett » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:16 pm

Thanks Ned and Richard for your comments.
I posted the wrong scale earlier so posted the correct one, which sounds even worse. I'll work on relaxing and slowing down.
Jack

Stewart Doyle

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 5

Post by Stewart Doyle » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:05 pm

Thanks for the comments Richard. I think the main reason for the change/problem with the D minor is that we are asked to play using 'ai' - which isn't something I often do - and probably why we were asked to do it! I notice too that M. Delcamp has suggested starting with p for some of the scales, again this is quite different to the fingering asked for when sitting exams (e.g. ABRSM in the UK) I do think posting the scales is a really useful exercise. We're more likely to get a good 'take' and can then focus on these issues.
Jack - I hope this comes across OK, and it might just be you haven't had enough time to spend on it - but I feel your heart isn't quite in the Sor piece. I think I might struggle with the Danse Polonaise in the same way. Perhaps if you play M Delcamp's version in the background while you look at his excellent analysis of the piece it might help - or perhaps trying to mentally sing along to the recording or even while you play? I'm probably completely wrong - the pressure to record a piece can turn anyone against them! One minor thing - if you pardon the pun, your scale is wrongly titled as C minor instead of major. Best wishes, Stewart

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