D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Coen van Dijk » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:21 am

Richard: Well played. Maybe work on the slurs excersise at bit so that all four LH fingers are faster on the strings. But the notes sound clear and that is the most important.
Jack: Good to see that you have changed your guitar position (or was it realy camera angle then?).
Mark: Thanks for the information, good posting. Thanks also for the invitation to discuss the arpeggio of D04 further with private messages, but I think I got it. Apparenty the most inportant stuff there is supposed to be the LH. I was pretty sure, untill you mentioned:
Sounding the strings with our fingers (as opposed to merely fretting them)
I thought "fretting" was the term used for placing the LH fingers on the fretboard. If not, this means the d04-arpeggio study does have to be practiced like a damping excersise, like i originally mentione....(sorry to all that I am hammering on something that is supposed to be in another forum)

At alll: I also agree that being comfortable with a piece gives one room to work on sound quality. However, I think sometimes this stage might only be reached after a lesson here is complete. I also like to point out that it is not the aim, In my oppinion, to be the poster with the best recording (although I also give my best ofcourse). I think it is more important that a piece is posted rather early. That way, if there are technical issues that the poster did not see, he/she may still be able to changes/improve then. If you find out that something is wrong after three weeks of practicing a piece, it willl be more difficult to change your bad habbit. :discussion:
I guess you normally dont go visiting a guitar teacher only after you can play the guitar..... :wink:

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Goran Penic
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Goran Penic » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:09 pm

Coen van Dijk wrote: ...
At alll: I also agree that being comfortable with a piece gives one room to work on sound quality. However, I think sometimes this stage might only be reached after a lesson here is complete. I also like to point out that it is not the aim, In my oppinion, to be the poster with the best recording (although I also give my best ofcourse). I think it is more important that a piece is posted rather early. That way, if there are technical issues that the poster did not see, he/she may still be able to changes/improve then. If you find out that something is wrong after three weeks of practicing a piece, it willl be more difficult to change your bad habbit.
I guess you normally dont go visiting a guitar teacher only after you can play the guitar.....
:bravo: Coen, I totally agree. And it is nice to see someone's improvement over the initial difficulties.
:bye:
Guitar: Mirko Hotko 1989
Strings: D'Addario EJ46TT Pro Arte Dynacore Hard Tension
Recorder: Olympus LS-20M

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Coen van Dijk » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:47 pm

So, here is my new and improved scale excersise. I still have problems keeping the tone quality of al notes even. Especially when paying the bass strings with i-m. But I guess this is a nail-issue Im having: too long/too short, the tip to much left/too much right, I dont know, too much bent down in any case.... :cry:
I just noticed the first seconds of the excersise are missing. I must have Ieft it at the setting where it stars recording only after 3 seconds and did not notice. Sorry...

I did not find time to get into this YouTube thing...I spend it all on praticing guitar. 8)
So its a attachment, not a link. :desole:
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Ned Henderson
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Ned Henderson » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:48 pm

Coen - I thought the scales were very well played. I like the clear shifts of left hand position. Incidentally you seem to be playing apoyando or rest stroke. Is this what we were asked to do, or just you felt like it? maybe I missed something, I have been practising it free stroke....

I agree about the practice videos too. I try to post after a week of practice if I can...even if my playing is not very good and I make several mistakes...sometimes I feel a bit embarrassed about posting a not very good practice but I think that is the way I learn...if I post a bad practice, then I think I had better put in some work now and make a better video if possible for next time...and also the feedback helps a lot, sometimes my fellow guitarists see mistakes that I cannot see myself and this is very helpful. So I think it is a good idea to try not to be too perfectionist here if possible...I know that is hard too, I sometimes have a voice in my head saying *You can't post that, it's so bad!"...but if I can't do better at the present, I just post it anyway and hope it will help me to move forward...


Ned

Ned Henderson
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Ned Henderson » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:53 pm

Ned Henderson wrote:Incidentally you seem to be playing apoyando or rest stroke. Is this what we were asked to do, or just you felt like it? maybe I missed something, I have been practising it free stroke....
:oops: I just answered this question for myself by looking back at the start of the lesson. Who wasn't paying full attention to the teacher...and at my age too?!

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Goran Penic
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Goran Penic » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:02 pm

Coen van Dijk wrote: I did not find time to get into this YouTube thing...I spend it all on praticing guitar.
OK I can wait :fume: :D

My D02 course starts tomorrow and it's time to put the new video before moving there. :bye:

[media]https://youtu.be/gjHjieUpdo4[/media]
Guitar: Mirko Hotko 1989
Strings: D'Addario EJ46TT Pro Arte Dynacore Hard Tension
Recorder: Olympus LS-20M

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Coen van Dijk » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:57 am

Hi Ned

Good you found the answer yourselve.....what is it? :D I did not know what mr Delcamp is doing, I did not look closely enough either. :oops:
I just played apoyando because I found I can get a more consistent tone that way....Which means I probably have to start working on getting consistent tone playing free stroke

Coen

Richard Judge

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Richard Judge » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:17 am

Coen, It says apoyando at the top of the score.

Goran, well played. I like this one and you play it very well.
My only comments would be to use thumb strokes for the low E and D in bars 21-23 and mute the low A. This helps keep the bass separate from the melody.
For the last time thought you play the arpeg. chords with a rolling action initially I did this as well. M.Delcamp uses his thumb only (as far as I can tell). When I tried this I always get stuck on the last note of the chord (either missing it or overstepping the string onto the next string) so the melody gets lost. As a compromise I'm now strumming with the thumb but playing the top note only with a finger. This keeps the melody clear with soft bases even when my thumb gets it wrong. ;-)

Mark Bacon
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Mark Bacon » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:43 pm

I play the Paganini Waltz better on my older guitar for some reason. Hm..

The Pontkalleg piece was ALMOST there. My memory lapsed in the LAST measure. Just great! :evil: I just couldn't bear to do any more takes/attempts today though.
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Stewart Doyle
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Stewart Doyle » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:04 pm

Jack – really enjoyed your first posts. I know there was some comment on the camera/guitar position, but you are looking very comfortable and confident compared to the D02 days! You looked to be getting into your second posting of the waltz – you perhaps missed the odd damped note, but it’s good to see a musical piece instead of an ‘exercise’. Ditto for the Greensleeves – as Ross says in a post, it’s good to see people ‘stepping up’ and uploading a second version is a demonstration of that.

Ross – great posts. Your Greensleeves was very stately and I was thinking it was very much the ‘right sound’ – at least to my ears. Towards the end though, I was after a little variation – perhaps dynamics/tone/tempo? Impressive waltz – damping and control without sounding forced or staccato. One minor point – on the slurs I think we are supposed to start on bar2 and then continue all the way down? [Mark/Richard – I think you did bars 2 and 3 – I don’t suppose it really matters though…]

Mark – I really like your posts, always very musical and always demonstrating confidence and control. I guess the slight separation of the bass and treble notes is another way of bringing more colour to Greensleeves. You latest posts are really good – some bars in particular have a lovely warm tone.

Richard – your position shifts in the scale looked very seamless – It’s not that easy to tell how each of us is doing, but yours looked good. I enjoyed the rest of your pieces too.

Coen – the scales are well played, and like Richard, have smooth transitions.

Goran – thanks for posting the Pontalleg– sounds really good. I’m hoping to upload this over the weekend. One thought though, from bar 21 I think the extra accompanying notes are a bit strong compared to the melody?

I agree with Ned’s thoughts on the postings. I think it might also encourage a few people who are wondering whether to join in the lessons if we are happy to share our first error-strewn attempts!

I think I’ve finally viewed all the posts since my last message (sorry if I’ve missed someone!) – I might just be able to fit in 15 minutes of practice now…..

:bye:
Alhambra 11P Spruce
Antonio Lorca 3605 Cedar

Richard Judge

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Richard Judge » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:15 am

Thanks Stewart for your observations. Those shifts are hiding alot of left hand tension that needs sorting.
One thought though, from bar 21 I think the extra accompanying notes are a bit strong compared to the melody?
I disagree with this. The notes in question are not "extra" but are the bass notes and form a subtle echo with the melody. The A bass note should be damped when the E is played.The melody takes a kind of Dee dummm, Dee dumm (like a slow 6/8 time) and for these three bars the bass does the same.
In my personal opinion of course :D

Now I've said it I'll have to play it :? :chaud:

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Goran Penic
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Goran Penic » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:32 am

Mark very good, but somehow I do not have a sense of rhythm of waltz with your interpretation of Paganini. Also, in my opinion, Pontkalleg sounds a little too pathetic.
Otherwise, technically excellent done with full control. :merci:

Richard, thank's for your comments. I tried to play the way you suggested, but now I do not have time to do a video. Maybe later.
Richard Judge wrote:...
One thought though, from bar 21 I think the extra accompanying notes are a bit strong compared to the melody?
I disagree with this. The notes in question are not "extra" but are the bass notes and form a subtle echo with the melody. The A bass note should be damped when the E is played.The melody takes a kind of Dee dummm, Dee dumm (like a slow 6/8 time) and for these three bars the bass does the same.
I totally agree with Richard.
:bye:
Guitar: Mirko Hotko 1989
Strings: D'Addario EJ46TT Pro Arte Dynacore Hard Tension
Recorder: Olympus LS-20M

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Coen van Dijk » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:20 pm

Goran: Well played. The last bars: are you doing the arpeggios with the thumb only, or with all RH fingers? I cant see it clearly. If with the thumb only: Thats pretty good. I cant manage it like that, and it seems a lot of us dont have enough "thumb-control" and the melody gets lost quickly...

Mark: I liked you Pontkalleg a lot. Very musical! I dont think its sounds too sad. Its just right. It gave me images of a minstrel telling a story about castles, maidens in distress and valliant knights. :casque:

Mark Bacon
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Mark Bacon » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:29 pm

Hey, there's some actual discussion/disagreement going on now! As to be expected, the longer we work together the more comfortable we become in our discussion. In the end it will benefit us all the more, I'm sure of it.

Goran-I agree about my Waltz. I think it was an attempt to insert rubato, and it didn't work out very well. For the Pontkalleg piece: you agree that there are no technical issues and I guess that's the important bit. The other issue (of mood) is an opinion/interpretation matter (especially seeing how Coen liked it), and of course all are welcome!! For what it's worth though, my version is the same length as that of our teacher, yours is 10 sec faster. Maybe your version could 'borrow some sadness' from mine and we'll both have it nailed! 8)

I'm loving the discussion regarding measures 21 and 22 of Pontkalleg. These are the detailed-oriented matters that eventually separate the good players from the average (or not-so-good) ones. I have my initial opinion but want to fiddle with it some more with some of your suggestions in mind before I give it.

These honest discussions are why we're here-it's a really good group! :merci:

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Goran Penic
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Goran Penic » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:20 pm

Mark Bacon wrote:For the Pontkalleg piece: you agree that there are no technical issues and I guess that's the important bit. The other issue (of mood) is an opinion/interpretation matter (especially seeing how Coen liked it), and of course all are welcome!! For what it's worth though, my version is the same length as that of our teacher, yours is 10 sec faster.
I do not measure the time it was for me totally irrelevant. I talk about my personal feeling when I listen to your performance. I have already said that your performance was played technically correct. I could just write: "Bravo Mark," and that is all. Thus I wanted to say that in your version lacks some accents, some solid points - is too one-dimensional, but again, it's just my personal opinion.
Likewise, I am glad that your performance like you and others on the forum. I have to listen to it several times, and I might enjoy. :casque:
I am glad that we can discuss such things instead of how to hold the guitar, etc. .. (although I still have failures there :) ).
Again, I apologize if I hurt you. As they say: "Do not discuss about tastes" :bye:

P.S.
Perhaps I should add this: I didn't talked about which Pontkalleg is better my or your - my is far from it, but that yours is (in my opinion) almost perfect
Last edited by Goran Penic on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Guitar: Mirko Hotko 1989
Strings: D'Addario EJ46TT Pro Arte Dynacore Hard Tension
Recorder: Olympus LS-20M

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