D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:12 am

Hi All,

I'm starting this course (very!) late. I think I am supposed to start from lesson one, and try to catch up, but that would probably mean that I'd study the remainder of the course in isolation, so I decided to jump in at the current lesson, and work the backlog in parallel.

I've been watching some of your video submissions, and everyone's playing sounds very good! I guess that no one is particularly interested in getting feedback of the past lessons, but I'll try to offer some feedback regarding the current assignments when appropriate.

These are my first submissions:

C major trills:

[media]https://youtu.be/cGdhvAkpi7U[/media]

La Miñona de Cataluña

[media]https://youtu.be/yXfZ3Lrj8mc[/media]

I'll try to work on some speed with this later, even though it doesn't sound too bad with slower tempo either.
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:42 am

Some comments to La Minona:

Jack: I'm not sure whether you produced that glissando effect during the position shifts on purpose or not. In case not, and you would wish to avoid that, there are two ways. Either release the pressure from your left hand index finger ever so slightly during the shift (still keeping contact with the string, i.e. use the finger as a guide), or place your RH index finger on the string ready to pick just as you start to move your left hand, or both. True enough, that if you still wish the passage to sound legato, you then need to practice doing the shift as quickly as possible. You did a great job of maintaining the tempo regardless of the trills!

Stewart: Very good and clean execution. Speeding up and playing without metronome will allow you to play more expressively.

Ross: Nice speed and the trills sound very effortless. Some hesitation fretting that A major chord. Try placing 4 and 3 fingers first in place, and add the index finger last just when you're about to pluck the chord. That will let the D string ring until you damp it with the index finger creating a more legato-like effect.

Coen: You should pay extra attention to the duration of the last measure of both parts. You tend to not wait until the whole duration (count to 6, where each count corresponds to a quaver / eighth note). Although you are free to speed up and slow down the tempo when performing the piece, in my opinion during long notes you shouldn't start accelerando or ritardando, because the listener cannot be aware of you doing so, and when the next note comes before it's expected, it will end up sounding rushed. Although in this case I'm sure that you didn't mean to speed up, but mistook the dotted half note of only half its duration. Other than that I really liked your playing. It sounded very fluent!

Ned: I think you should practice playing the piece a couple of times without the trills. For all the notes with trills you tend to extend their duration past how long they're supposed to sound. It's as if you don't count the duration of the trill to the total duration of the crotchet. I know from personal experience how trills and mordents can throw off your counting (too many things happening at the same time). You could benefit from using a metronome just long enough until you get the hang of the timing of the trilled notes.

Goran: Very nice speed and well executed trills! My only complaint would be the same as for Coen. You tend to not wait until the duration of the last measure of part A, starting approx. a quaver length too early. As it is the end of the phrase, I think it's better to wait too long than rush it. This is probably something that divides people's opinions though.

Hopefully none of you got offended by my criticism (very sorry if you did!). I assure it all means well! I also realise that you could well be aware of the issues I stated. I myself sound much better in my head than what comes out when I actually play :lol: I guess the point being that theory and practice are two different things.
Last edited by Marko Räsänen on Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Goran Penic
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Goran Penic » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:02 pm

Marko Räsänen wrote:Some comments to La Minona:
...
Goran: Very nice speed and well executed trills! My only complaint would be the same as for Coen. You tend to not wait until the duration of the last measure of part A, starting approx. a quaver length too early. As it is the end of the phrase, I think it's better to wait too long than rush it. This is probably something that divides people's opinions though.
...
:merci: Marko, my fault :oops: . I haven't paid sufficient attention to this "detail".
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Goran Penic » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:33 pm

Marko Räsänen wrote:...
These are my first submissions:
...
:bravo: Marko. Very good playing.
:bye:
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Ned Henderson

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Ned Henderson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:36 pm

Coen van Dijk wrote:Since I am new to the lessons I never took an exam before. How does this exam work? Should I get nervous already?
No, not really. You could get excited maybe... :) We were given a piece of a similar standard to what we had already been working on, and had three or four weeks to prepare it. practice and comment on each other's performance...then we had to submit a video of it online to the "judges" who are teachers participating in and supporting the forum...then a week or two later we got our results. I think we all passed...there were different grades from distinction to a basic pass. It was a good process really and as Goran says, you can check it out on the Spanish forum.
Marko Räsänen wrote:Ned: I think you should practice playing the piece a couple of times without the trills. For all the notes with trills you tend to extend their duration past how long they're supposed to sound. It's as if you don't count the duration of the trill to the total duration of the crotchet. I know from personal experience how trills and mordents can throw off your counting (too many things happening at the same time). You could benefit from using a metronome just long enough until you get the hang of the timing of the trilled notes.
Marko, thanks for this helpful feedback. You are right and I have been trying to work with a metronome for the last week to try and improve my timing, playing the piece both with and without the trills. I am still overextending the notes with trills but at least not by so much....I am hoping in a week or two I will more or less master it. I find having a weak 4th finger on LH seems to slow the trills down too, but practice is helping.

It was good to hear your practice of the La Minona and the trills in C major, :bravo: I thought you had a good grasp of the technique, certainly better than me... so I don't have any particular suggestion, except that with practice you may bring a little more colour and interpretation into the La Minona.

Ned

Jack Jarrett

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jack Jarrett » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:22 pm

Welcome Marko!Nice to have some fresh eyes and ears.Thanks for the comments and to be honest I can't remember if I purposely played the glissando or not, but if I did, then since it is not marked to play as such, technically this would be incorrect.Thanks for the observation.
You sound like you have this lesson under control and I will go back and view your earlier lesson posts as time permits.(nice little harmonic additions!)

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Mark Bacon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:52 am

Marko,

Welcome to our group!

Mark

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Marko Räsänen » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:33 am

Thanks for the welcome guys!

Ned, very good to hear that you're making progress with the trills and timing. I guess the key is to achieve some level of automation for playing the trills, so that you don't consider them as additional notes or individual slurs anymore, but rather the ornamentation that they are. I'm sure it'll click for you with some practice. Counting out loud from one to six for each measure (or you could just silently imitate a metronome in your mind) while playing, and not being overly worried about the quality of your trills (for example do just a single slur instead of the double at first) could also be helpful. In the end, the timing of the trill itself isn't critical (although they are marked as 32th note triplets, that isn't meant to be taken literally), but the overall duration of the note is.

You are right that I should try to add some colour to the piece. For that I need to come up with some filling for those long notes, because as it is written in the sheet, there is very little you can do about it. The harmonics I added to end of part B were something of a whim, as I wanted to study a bit the artificial harmonics technique, but they're not periodically correct, so I'll try to come up with something else to make the piece more interesting. I guess I'll keep my ideas about that brewing until I complete the requirements for some of the early lessons.

I find it interesting what so many people are saying about trilling with their little finger. For myself I'm having the most trouble doing trills (or even simple slurs) with my index finger. I guess part of the difficulty for me is that in the case of index finger trill the lower note is always an open string, and I easily produce a loud twang when doing the pull-off, if I'm not extra careful. Still even with an open string slur, I usually choose some other finger than index one, whenever that is possible. This could be related to the fact that, for me at least the fingertips of fingers 2-4 are round shaped, as they press the strings more directly with the tip, whereas my index finger contacts the string more with its thumb side (and that's where the callus is). The angled approach makes it hard for me to aim the finger accurately when doing the hammer-on part of the trill, especially if no other fingers are touching the strings for added stability.

Jack, that glissando of yours actually made the piece sound a bit like delta blues :lol: If you'll have the time to view my early lesson submissions, it will be much appreciated! I've already been practicing the Schiarazula, and I reckon it will be very difficult to get a clean take of it, at least when played at same tempo as Mr. Delcamp does. The "damping of lower string with thumb" concept is new to me, and makes the seemingly easy piece much harder to play, as many of you also felt in lesson 1 thread. I'm also having some trouble with using the annular finger as part of alternation, but I felt that it was something I absolutely wanted to study, so I completed the RH fingering for the piece so that 16th notes are played with a-i succession, and the following 8th note with m, with the reasoning that a and m fingers are more tied together, so I should avoid using that pair in fast succession, and as the next note is coupled with thumb playing 5th or 6th string, m finger should be better suited for that (distance-wise). I noticed that Goran used a-m-i for those notes, and was able to achieve good speed with that fingering, so I guess I need to try that as well and figure out which one works better for me. If anyone wants to continue discussion about Schiarazula, maybe we should move it to lesson one thread?

Marko
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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Coen van Dijk » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:10 pm

Marko, welcome to D03 and thank you for your precise and accurate analyses of my submissions.
I wil try and improve the Sanz piece tonigh by counting the beats exactly. I ussualy start a new piece by counting exactly. When I get more familiar with the piece I leave it but apparantly then some errors can slip in...

I liked you playing a lot. The thrills sounded a bit uneven in volume now and then. Something I still have not masterd myselve yet.
I think it has to do with muscle controll and that means practice. I checked Jacks advise to see where I plant my fingers exactly, but it did not improve much. The second finger tends to end up a bit closer to the fret, but the difference in sound is marginal.

Again, welcome, and thanks for your accurate observations.
I suggest you could tell us in the current lessons when you post something for a previous lessons. That we we can go and check it out. You probabky will get more response that way.

RossStep

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by RossStep » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:29 pm

The trilles uncovered several weaknesses in the LH. I'm still working on them and will try to up the tempo, eventually. Welcome Marko, glad you are joining in. Ross

[media]https://youtu.be/XyE9uM8aP5c&feature=youtu.be[/media]

RossStep

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by RossStep » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:32 pm

Ned, Did you check out the youtube site on RH lessons I left for you in lesson 5? Ross

Richard Judge

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Richard Judge » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:27 pm

Hi Marko your playing is very good.
Here's my first post for this lesson.
The extra notes at the end are not really enough to cover the last note slip :roll:
La Minona de Cateluna
[media]https://youtu.be/DOw2x2zcFug[/media]

Jack Jarrett

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jack Jarrett » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:33 pm

:(
Aw, curse of the last note blunder! :lol: Very good up to that point!

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:49 pm

Thanks for the feedback Coen!

I struggle with consistency regarding trills and with my playing in general as well. With some pieces and exercises it's more pronounced than with others, but it tends to get better during long practice sessions (whenever I have the time for those), only to get worse the next day. I'm not sure what to do about it, except to just give it some time and practice and hopefully my consistency will get better. This reminds me of practicing "Grand Prix Legends", a notoriously hard 60's Formula 1 simulator / game a few years back. That game had a monstrous learning curve, and it took me years of practice (often several hours a day) to be able to finish the races without crashing, or to consistently pull fast laps within a tenth of a second or two. The learning process of playing classical guitar does have similarities to learning to play that game well, so I'm fairly confident that although CG playing is on many levels more complicated skill, the same thing applies to consistency of performance; it can only be developed when the technical skills have been developed to a certain level first. In practice, I think for me it means to have established a solid technique especially for right hand, which I consider much harder than left hand, partly because of the ever changing element of nails (shape, length, friction of the plucking surface). Incidentally I filed mine today before recording lesson 1 submissions, and I was really struggling with them for my first practice session. Even in the recordings there are some missed strokes etc. You can find the in the D03 lesson 01 thread, so judge yourself :)

Ross, good luck with working with the trills! Not the most interesting thing to be studying for certain, but beats the first lesson polyphony exercises in my opinion :)

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Goran Penic » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:46 am

Hi all,

:bravo: Richard, very good.

[media]https://youtu.be/Y0BfEA0C4Wo[/media]

I intentionally played with the thumb. Tomorrow I will record a version with i m

[media]https://youtu.be/pWuwwTaWspI[/media]

:bye:
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Strings: D'Addario EJ46TT Pro Arte Dynacore Hard Tension
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