D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

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Jack Jarrett

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jack Jarrett » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:00 am

I am currently on vacation in Mexico, so I am not able to practice. 8)

Before I left I was able to see David Russell perform in a small venue, 75 people or so, and also to attend his masterclass the next day as an observer!He is a great guitarist and very approachable and likeable person. I did ask him his opinion on playing trilles using the alternating finger method, as he was giving some advice to a participant. He prefers not to use the alternating fingers, especially the 3-4 finger combination, as he thinks it is just a little harder to perform them accurately and efficiently. He will use the 2-3 fingers at times, but prefers to ornament with the same finger. I'm not opposed to either method, and will practice both until I am able to find the easiest method that works and sounds the best for me.

I did pick up great advice for his participants that will benefit me, such as guitar postioning, hand and wrist position, finger angles etc. Most of the participants were clearly better players than I am, and there choices to play for him were longer and much harder than anything that I have attempted.It did wet may appetite for learning some longer pieces by Albeniz or Tarrega, and so am anxious to learn faster.I must be patient,though, and learn the simpler pieces so that I can have a good foundation to build on.

I'm starting to miss my Cordoba!

Mark Bacon
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Mark Bacon » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:30 am

[media]https://youtu.be/zsfaIhoAUzI[/media]


A little rough on the first repeat of the 2nd section :chaud: , not so bad on the repeat though.

Cheers!
Mark

RossStep

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by RossStep » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:52 pm

It's a slower than it should be and I missed a few notes, but as a practice exercise, I learned a little more.
See you in lesson 7, Ross

[media]https://youtu.be/ERLW_ls07ME&feature=youtu.be[/media]

RossStep

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by RossStep » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:15 pm

Goran, Good work on Las Hachas. Up tempo with a quick and precise left hand.

Mark, Glad your hand has healed up. As usual, you're playing well.

Jack, What a great opportunity to see David Russell. Did you ask him about making a guest appearance in D03? 8)
Ross

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Coen van Dijk » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:51 pm

Ross, very steady playing. I agree, its a bit slow, buts its accurate.
Mark, good La Minona. Not so perfect as your usual posts, but considering your hand injury and the lost practice time, very good.
Goran, Excellent Las Hachas, very good tempo and cleanly played. Are you sure you have too little practice time? Have you considerd moving up to D04 maybe? :shock: :D
Marko, nice version of La mInona. I liked the variations you weaved into it.

Looks like i will not be posting a second version of the pieces. :cry: I hoped I would manage today, but I failed to record anything. :desole:

Richard Judge

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Richard Judge » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:02 pm

Goran
I like your Las Hachas is very confident. :D

Ross
Well played start slow and only increase the tempo when you are confident. Something that I am no good at playing always slightly faster than my fingers will allow. :o

Mark (in the dark)
I like your La Minona de cateluna. There are slips in the middle but you soak them up.Your playing is very relaxed. :D

Marko
Your playing is really good.. :D My only suggestion would be to relax a bit. :D

Anyway here's my latest...
las hachas

[media]https://youtu.be/FAdrPHjl2rc[/media]

La minona

[media]https://youtu.be/minrFZW8fcM[/media]

trills exercise 39

[media]https://youtu.be/L7fXg66DYwM[/media]

Ned Henderson
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Ned Henderson » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:13 pm

Dear All

Not my best practice just lately but here is a posting of the trills exercise in C and a second attempt at La Minona.

[media]https://youtu.be/FmKEwUL7fKo[/media]

[media]https://youtu.be/wNy0uro5-9g[/media]

Ned

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Coen van Dijk » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:36 am

Ned, I liked your minona very much. The small surprises you packed in there were really nice too hear! :casque: :bravo:
Your thrill excersise was a little rough compared to your minona. I had the feeling this was more because you were not warmed up yet.

I noticed that to get a good thrill it is also important that the LH finger playing the main note, e.g. the 1st finger when playing a 3-4 thrill, must be pressing on the string firmly and must be positioned close to the fret(as always). This way the main note sounds more clear. I Play low tension strings at the moment and sometimes my 3rd or 4th finger pullls the string from underneath the 1st finger.

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Marko Räsänen » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:04 pm

Jack, I would be very interested to hear more about your approach to rest stroke. Currently I'm aware of two ways to accomplish rest stroke. 1) Starting from free stroke position, pull your palm back (away from the direction of the floor), which keeps the angles of the finger segments essentially the same as with free stroke. Only the position and the angle relative to the plucked string changes. 2) Keep the palm in free stroke position, but extend the middle joint of the finger as you pluck. I myself prefer the first option when possible to use it. To me it doesn't make sense to adjust the height of your palm depending on free / rest stroke, because the position of the string to be plucked will remain the same with both strokes. Only the trajectory of the finger tip after the stroke will change.

Nice DR story! I agree that it is accuracy vs. speed and duration issue. Then again someone like David probably uses cross string trills whenever possible, as they can be sustained indefinitely without any degradation of sound nor fatigue of fingers.

Ned, well spotted with that weak open E note. The thing that happened was that my intent was to play a similar addition in the 2nd bar of part B the first time as during the repeat, but I somehow lost concentration and started to think about something else. Close to reaching the end of the 1st bar, I suddenly "woke up" but decided that I wasn't mentally prepared to play the addition, so I left it out for the first time. The weak E note was a sign of my hesitation on how to play the next bar :lol: And yes, the extended trill in the end was intentional rallentando, as I thought it was appropriate. I only wish it would have sounded a little stronger, but the hand position (the first finger holding down A on the 3rd string) didn't allow for effective use of two fingers alternation on the trill.

Mark, good to have you back! Your trills sounded very nice regardless of lack of practice time!

Ross, very decent Las Hachas! I didn't notice any missed notes though. They probably weren't that important then :D The speed could be faster, but part B is surprisingly difficult even at slower tempo. I keep promising to post my version of it, but I haven't had a chance to do any recording for a while. I am getting more fluent in playing the piece though...

Richard, thanks for your suggestion :lol: I do try and relax, but the camera makes it difficult. I think there are both pro's and cons. Obviously not sounding / looking relaxed is on the negative side, but having the mindset of doing a performance (instead of regular practice) when recording can maybe help to alleviate some performance anxiety to a degree where performing a piece will actually make it sound better than just practicing it. Hopefully doing these performances for camera for long enough time will allow me relax a bit better eventually :)

Your performances were very solid as usual! The only thing I'd like to point out is the tune of your guitar. Especially the bits where you play open D on the 4th string and the D on the 3rd fret 2nd string, the latter sounds very sharp (I think) compared to the first to a point where it's very distracting. Also Goran has some tune problems sometimes. Are you using an electronic tuner? I find that even with that, one needs to adjust the tuning a bit for the reason that a guitar can never be fully in tune, so what I personally do is to make it out of tune in places where it doesn't distract much. I also tune by ear when practicing a piece if/when there is a chord that does not sound in tune.

There's a simple fix for the most common out of tune issues when using an electronic tuner. Only tune the bass strings as open. Tune the treble things from 2nd or 3rd fret. The 3rd string is notorious for the intonation problems near the nut. Typically when you tune the open G, the 2nd fret A will end up sounding sharp. If you tune the 2nd fret A, the open G will sound flat. This is because of the nut position, which is a compromise between the strings of various thicknesses and tensions. What I find works the best for me, is to tune the 3rd string A just a little bit sharp (so that open G is just a little bit flat). I would also check 3rd string A against the 5th string open A (or the 12th harmonic of it), and 2nd string D against the 4th string open D. Before that I would make sure that the open bass strings are in tune with theirselves by using the 5th (on the lower string) and 7th (on the upper string) fret harmonics. The first string rarely has any bad intonation issues, so usually I just tune it against the 6th string 5th fret harmonic.

Ned, I can tell you had done much work with the timing issue with trills! Your timing was spot on this time, except some bits in part B that were a little bit rushed, but not too much to distract. Although it's probably at least partly due to the microphone you use to record, your playing does sound a bit nasal. I cannot offer any advice to you as I don't know what is causing it. Perhaps you could experiment in producing a softer tone?

Marko
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Mark Bacon
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Mark Bacon » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:37 pm

Ned,

As mentioned your timing has gotten really good. For my taste though your Minona has too much of a snapping sound. I think its a function of two things. First, your RH. You appear to have fairly strong looking hands (much opposed to mine!!) and so should adjust your technique accordingly. Play more over the soundhole and not so close to the bridge to compensate. Also get some angle on your RH by rotating the RH slightly towards the thumb. Watch a video of Segovia to see what I mean (also known for having strong hands). In other words, you play with no RH angle and so your fingers attack the string at a perpendicular angle, which usually leads to a hooking of the string and a that snapping attack. Second on the LH...rotate it so the pinky is not so far from the fretboard. Notice in your trill exercise your LH position was better and there was less of that string snapping sound.

And to Ned and all the others...I hope that my harping on RH position hasn't gotten excessive. I feel that its the cornerstone of our technique and the limiting factor in how good we sound no matter what else we're doing!! Back when I was taking lessons it's what I spent the most time on (usually getting "harped" on! :) )

Cheers!
Mark

Ned Henderson
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Ned Henderson » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:36 pm

Dear All

:merci: for your helpful feedback.
Coen van Dijk wrote:Your thrill excersise was a little rough compared to your minona. I had the feeling this was more because you were not warmed up yet.
I agree with you Coen. It was a rushed practice, just to "get the job done" which is never a good excuse. Glad you liked the La Minona, I think my timing is getting noticeably better with practice, but....
Marko Räsänen wrote:Although it's probably at least partly due to the microphone you use to record, your playing does sound a bit nasal. I cannot offer any advice to you as I don't know what is causing it. Perhaps you could experiment in producing a softer tone?
It's a fair point, Marko. I am concentrating too hard on timing and improving the left hand technique, but neglecting the tone production/ RH. I think this will gradually improve with practice. Perhaps if I played it a little slower too, to begin with.
Mark Bacon wrote:As mentioned your timing has gotten really good. For my taste though your Minona has too much of a snapping sound. I think its a function of two things.

Thanks for this helpful advice Mark. Personally I don't find it excessive, on the contrary I appreciate the time and effort that yourself and other fellow guitarists on this course are putting into offering feedback and suggestions...it's all good as far as I am concerned...

Ned

Ned Henderson
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Ned Henderson » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:53 pm

Mark

You have got a very sweet tone on the La Minona, gives me something to aim at

Ross
A very precise and slow tempo version of Las Hachas, I liked that you took your time and focused on precise technique. It sounded very crisp.

Richard
Las Hachas played a little fast so that there are a few lurches and hesitations, though pretty good for a first effort! I would recommend playing a little slower at first and building up...
The trills in C were excellent, looks like you put in a lot of practice there and I liked your La Minona, though I too can hear your guitar sounds out of tune at times...



Ned

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Marko Räsänen » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:51 pm

Mark, I agree 100% about what you said of RH technique being the cornerstone of our playing. LH technique perhaps becomes equally important at later stage when things get more hairy. At that stage without a strong RH, things will get excessively difficult, so it is something worth "investing" in now. I also think it's a fair assumption that we're all here to learn and to get better, and without being able to tell each other what bothers us in others' playing, how are we supposed to know what to improve on? Some of the feedback, although valid, may be such that we have yet no means to improve based on it, but it's all good to keep in mind for the future, and some day we'll be able to act on it more effectively.

Here's my version of Las Hachas, that ended up exactly the same tempo as Goran is playing it :D I would have wished to do a faster version, but my scale playing technique really isn't up to it, especially on the lower strings. I think part of the difficulty with the scales on B part is the use of thumb, which means that I cannot rest my hand against it for stability and support. Therefore the whole RH feels unstable during the B part, and my playing becomes inaccurate (slight RH timing issues). I only realized it now when writing this, and I perhaps should have made some extra effort to anchor the thumb on 5th and 6th strings after playing the bass note on bars 13 and 14 respectively to get more stability and hence consistency to the scales. Doh!

[media]https://youtu.be/YrWd9uGgOWs[/media]

Thanks for watching!

Marko
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Mark Bacon
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Mark Bacon » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:48 pm

Marko,

I liked your version of Las Hachas. Even though it's slower than indicated I still think that performance-wise that tempo would work! I was gonna call you on using your thumb in the first measure (after beat 1), since Mr Delcamp does not (he uses I-M)-but that is in fact what is indicated in the score. Hmm...I wonder which is the preferred fingering?

Performer preference, perhaps?

Mark

Mark Bacon
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Mark Bacon » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:20 am

[media]https://youtu.be/TUjj0hDeN6k[/media]

I've been practicing Las Hachas, wondering about both the RH fingering mentioned above and the fingering for the position change/slide discussed much earlier. This video represents where the piece is after very little practice, just to show what fingerings I settled into most comfortably (that is...the tempo is really slow/a little erratic and I bailed on the last repeat!).

For the slide I like doing a bit of a barre so that the bass note C can ring for 3 beats.

For the RH fingering of measure 1 I use the thumb as indicated except for on the B string.


Oh, and I got a light. :oops:

See you in lesson 7!

Mark

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