D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

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Pat Ross
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Fingering - Au Clair De La Lune

Post by Pat Ross » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:14 pm

I notice that the first verse starts with "M" and ends with "M" in the fourth measure, then repeats. Normally I thought we would then use "I" to start the repeated verse since you just used M and are using the same string to repeat the start of the line; however if you do that then the repeated verse ends with "I" being used for the last note in the fourth measure, second time around, and you are directed to use "I" to start the next verse if you follow the directions, meaning you are repeating the same string with the same finger.

My question is should the 5th measure start with an "I" as directed or do you just repeat the first measure with M again? Finally does it matter as long as you are alternating? I suspect there is a reason for this.

Thanks,

Pat
La Patrie Collection/LaBella 2001 Extra Hard Tension

~ You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body ~
C.S. Lewis

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Pat Ross
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IL EST MINUIT

Post by Pat Ross » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:19 pm

ON the song IL EST MINUIT I having difficulty understanding how to correctly count the 5th measure.

I think it is 1 on the "Quarter note -A" then "And-uh" on the following A's which are Quarters, then "2-and" on the following B's that are Quarters. If this is correct then it is "1 on the down beat are " Both And-uh" on the upbeat so that 2 is again on the down?

Pat
La Patrie Collection/LaBella 2001 Extra Hard Tension

~ You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body ~
C.S. Lewis

Stefan Srećković

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Stefan Srećković » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:58 pm

You would count quarter notes as just ONE TWO THREE FOUR.

Eight notes divide one quarter note into two so if you were to have eight eight notes you would count them as ONE AND TWO AND THREE AND FOUR AND.

Having said that, because beat two is consisted of two eight notes, you would count the entire piece with the smallest interval in mind (eight note) i.e.

ONE and TWO AND THREE and FOUR and

Upper cased words represent your notes

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Pat Ross
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Pat Ross » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:14 pm

Stefan Srećković wrote:You would count quarter notes as just ONE TWO THREE FOUR.
Hi Stefan, thank you for responding. I see I have incorrectly described the measure and decided to post the measure so "we are all on the same sheet of music" pun intended.
IL EST MINUIT 001.jpg
So you can see it is in Cut Time and the half note gets the beat, I realize I called the 8th notes Quarters in the previous post and I did not state the time signature, very difficult to follow any question with those to errors.

So again, Starting in the 5th measure please count this for me. I do understand how quarters and 8th's are related, I want to know if the two 8th notes are counted as "And-uh on the up beat of the first count, so it goes One-And-uh, then Two-and, is this correct?

Second Question, there is a double line at the end of the Second and Fourth measures, what does this mean?

Pat
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La Patrie Collection/LaBella 2001 Extra Hard Tension

~ You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body ~
C.S. Lewis

Stefan Srećković

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Stefan Srećković » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:08 pm

Here's a picture that describes the entire counting of this piece.

Image

I've attached an audio file explaining it further.
pat.mp3
All of what's said here is in relation to common time (4/4).
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Pat Ross
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Pat Ross » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:59 pm

Thank You Stefan for all the work you did and taking the time to explain this. I am a bit surprised since the piece is written in Alla breve or Cut Time, which is counted in TWO. I gather that resorting to counting in 4 is the method used when 8th or 16th notes are involved, at least that is what I am understanding you are telling me, is this Correct?

Pat
La Patrie Collection/LaBella 2001 Extra Hard Tension

~ You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body ~
C.S. Lewis

Stefan Srećković

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Stefan Srećković » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:59 pm

Ok Pat you've made an astonishing discovery. I have completely missed the cut time symbol and just assumed it's common time. In that case, the original score is miswritten with counts that go over 2. Nevertheless, for the sake of moving forward, imagine it's a 4/4 time signature.

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Pat Ross
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Pat Ross » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:09 am

Thanks Stefan, I can figure it out in 4/4, it was the 2/2 I was having trouble with. It was fun working on this together and I do appreciate your efforts! :)

Cheers!

Pat

I have edited the message above to change Alla Breve (Cut Time) to the correct time signature which 2/2 NOT 2/4 as was originally posted.

Pat
La Patrie Collection/LaBella 2001 Extra Hard Tension

~ You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body ~
C.S. Lewis

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GeoffB
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by GeoffB » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:18 pm

As you suggested, Pat, I'll repeat here my answer to your recent PM to me on this question, while stressing that I am not an authority on music theory - this is just my own understanding of it.

In cut time, you could count it as follows. I use brackets for the "and"s which are not separate notes, but part of the preceding note:

One (and) Two (and) | One (and) Two (and) | One and Two (and) | One and Two (and) |
One and-a Two and | One and Two (and)

The two eighth notes which were giving you problems are the "and-a" and fall on the upbeat, before the next stressed beat. Think of it as the phrase "shave and a haircut".

And as I said, I wouldn't worry too much about the cut time aspect of this piece, because when M. Delcamp plays it, to be honest it sounds more like common time anyway. Once you get the "and-a" bit sorted out ("shave and a haircut"), the rest is fairly straightforward. Listen to how he plays it and aim for the same sound.

Geoff
Classical Guitar Forum.

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Monica Spurr

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Monica Spurr » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:53 pm

I'm still working on Old McDonald. I feel as if I'm never going to catch up with the lessons but not going to give up!

John Tompkins

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by John Tompkins » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:11 pm

Here is my first video.

Please review and post criticism .

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Pat Ross
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Pat Ross » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:05 am

Hi John,

Welcome to the group. It appears that most of our feedback will come from ourselves, the students.

I reviewed your video. Your right hand position looks good as well as how you are striking the strings. The position of the guitar itself does not look correct to me. It appears to be pulled back towards your chest, sitting on it edge rather that flat on your leg. It looks like this causes your left hand to be positioned incorrectly, with the thumb well exposed over the neck. I think if you were sitting up straight in the chair the guitar would less likely be pulled back on edge and there is a good chance the left hand would be better positioned with the thumb well behind the neck.

I tried finding some videos that might explain the position better, this is the best I could do, I hope it helps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxR_esEw_xs Frederick Noad in his book talks about being in a dominant position over the guitar. I saw the very nice looking electric guitar in the back ground and wondered if the position you were using with the Classical Guitar was being modeled with how you play the electric.

There was one video I looked at for you that was interesting in that the author talked about Carpal Tunnel issues with improper left hand. While he did not address positioning of the guitar per say you can see in the video the guitar is sitting squarely on his left leg, not pulled back towards his chest on its edge, as he describes correct left hand position, so I decided to include this video for you as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KydzlD2 ... RhxVklZbEn

Two of my favorite guitarists to study positions are John Williams and Frederic Mesnier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKG4ASK ... D8EF952C7F

Finally M. Delcamp in the opening pages of DO1 describes how he thinks the left left position should be with specific reference to the thumb.

I am a beginning student and offer these comments in hopes they offer some helpful guidance to you.

Best Regards,

Pat
La Patrie Collection/LaBella 2001 Extra Hard Tension

~ You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body ~
C.S. Lewis

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Pat Ross
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Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Pat Ross » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Last two of Lesson 1. I am finding it takes me at least 10 days before I am able to produce a homework video that is worth posting :(

[media]https://youtu.be/lNJZ_CJ-278[/media]

[media]https://youtu.be/kUu2ljTQauc[/media]

Critical feedback appreciated.

Pat
La Patrie Collection/LaBella 2001 Extra Hard Tension

~ You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body ~
C.S. Lewis

Ray Santos

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Ray Santos » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:48 am

Hello fellow classical guitarists,

Here are my video submissions for:

Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) : CORDES A VIDE - OPEN STRING (page 6)
I've never practiced muting strings before doing these two exercises. It requires more concentrated effort than I expected.

[media]https://youtu.be/266Qu_Z0WDE[/media]
[media]https://youtu.be/rVk5gkear1M[/media]

Anonyme : Old Mac Donald
I made about 20 failed attempts to play this song without errors at the suggested 152 beats-per-minute.
At this point in my training, the speed in the video is the fastest I can play the song without messing up.

[media]https://youtu.be/wtE_iA6K6YQ[/media]

I'll be working on "Anonyme : Il est minuit" tomorrow and plan to have the video for it posted that evening.

Thanks,
--Ray

Ray Santos

Re: D01 Classical guitar lesson 01

Post by Ray Santos » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:31 am

Hello everyone,

Here's my video for Anonyme : Il est minuit which completes D01 Lesson 01 for me.

[media]https://youtu.be/nDi_BlwyiX0[/media]
I'd like to know what you think about the placement and position of my right hand in the four videos I submitted for Lesson 01. I'm making a conscious effort to use proper right hand technique when plucking the strings, even though it feels awkward.

I'm also forcing myself to sit upright and to get comfortable maintaining the general angle shown of my left arm and hand to the fretboard.

Thanks,
--Ray

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