D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Archive of on-line classical guitar lessons from previous years.
Forum rules
The classical guitar lessons are free. They are aimed at the isolated amateur who does not have access to a teacher. To join the class, apply for registration into the students group.

PDF, MP3, Vidéos, Lessons : Level D01 - Level D02 - Level D03 - Level D04 - Level D05 - Level D06 - Level D07 - Level D08 - Level D09 - Level D10 - Level D11 - Level D12.
User avatar
Satyajit Kadle
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:30 am

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Satyajit Kadle » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:19 am

@Bea and William, well done on the Malaguena.. nice fluidity. Those ending passages are a bit tricky.

User avatar
CarlWestman
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by CarlWestman » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:26 pm

I turn my back for a few days and boom - you guys are already posting. I am nowhere near the fluidity level on Malaguena ... actually, I've been putting in 1-2 hrs a day on it for the last few days and am only at the point of knowing the notes without the sheet music, and getting much of the beginning. But several LH position changes are just too slow for me. I'm playing at 50% tempo along with JFD's recording (same pitch, not to worry) and still far from getting those string of 8th notes that occur around 3/4 of the way through. And some of those LH shifts esp when they involve the F on strings 6 and 4 are just too slow.

The exercises are not too bad. Ex 6 on p 73 can be a bit buzzy since my hands don't like to stretch like that, so I'm working on that too.

Stefan - what can I say - impressive. 6 hours total, or just to get a good take? It took me longer than that to learn the notes. What are you going to do for the next 3-4 weeks? Bea - I think your tempo is inconsistent, and you should play with a metronome and/or along with JFD's recording. There are digital recorders which can play back such things at varying tempos without changing the pitch. I use a Tascam DR-05, their entry-level model. You might have missed a note in there too (around 30-31 sec). It hardly needs to be said though - I'm not where you are yet, and it's not due to slacking off on practice. I'm really working hard on it, it's just coming slow. So I'm only critiquing because that's our mutual job. It's not that I can do better - frankly, I can't even do as well at this point.

William, I liked your version. Although it was only at about 80% of tempo, your timing seemed to be consistent, so it sounded very good. Also, your ex 6 - the video and audio don't seem to be lined up quite right. Off by a second or so (audio ahead of video).

more later ... hopefully after work.

Stefan Srećković

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stefan Srećković » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:21 pm

William well played. Spot on. That's exactly how it's supposed to be practiced, slowly but smoothly.

Carl it took me 6 hours (2 of which spent on that passage with eight notes) to get Malaguena as fluid as it was on the recording. And then an extra hour of recording time on Malaguena, to get rid of recording shivers and man up! :cafe:

Plenty of material to go through before lesson 3 comes, namely Sagreras book I, lessons 73 74 75!

There's a little trick that ought to be used when recording. Usually it takes me 30-45 minutes to get a 'decent' take, after which I'm completely relaxed and carefree. It's after that first 'decent' take that I end up recording a take that I'm actually satisfied with. It's like you trick your brain by knowing that whatever happens past that 'decent' point, you know you'll at least still have that one decent take that you're somewhat happy with. Once you get into that state of mind, you start putting emotions into your play, instead of worrying about technicalities and execution.

Beatriz Martin

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Beatriz Martin » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:27 pm

Hi Carl, thanks, no problems with critiques, that's the only way to improve, I have to critique as well even though you guys play much better than myself. If there were no critiques and we would only praise each other the lessons would have no point, all of us are students and have always something to learn from each other.
CarlWestman wrote: along with JFD's recording. There are digital recorders which can play back such things at varying tempos without changing the pitch. I use a Tascam DR-05, their entry-level model. You might have missed a note in there too (around 30-31 sec).
I have no idea what a digital recorder is, didn't know it existed, also need to be in my budget :) any advise on this is appreciated.
Stefan Srećković wrote:Plenty of material to go through before lesson 3 comes, namely Sagreras book I, lessons 73 74 75!
I did a bit of these lessons in Aug and got stuck in the middle around lesson 40 or so. I don't have time to continue now, Mr. Delcamp exercises and pieces take me a long time. Just out of curiosity did you accentuate the notes apoyando in Sagreras?

Question for all, has anybody tried playing the Sor piece? I don't find enjoyment playing this piece. I like old music, but I don't feel enthusiasm for playing this piece.

Stefan Srećković

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stefan Srećković » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:46 pm

The 'apoyando sign' in Sagreras' books isn't necessarily calling for apoyando, but just accentuation. I've played the Sor piece, haven't found it all too exciting either.

WilliamTee

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by WilliamTee » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:14 am

Thanks all for your comments.
I have questions to you all. 1 difficulty I notice about Malaguena is maintaining consistent tempo. When I do it faster, I tend to lose my tempo and at the end, at the last bar, I would either strike it too soon or too late. Sometimes, I already lose it at bar 17 or 42. In that recording, I lost my count too. I just followed my feeling. I did of course practiced using metronome for a while and speak out loud as what Mr Delcamp always suggests.

Does this happen to you guys?

WilliamTee

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by WilliamTee » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:20 am

Hi Bea, I have been practicing this and I find it challenging. It trains your RH to jump from string to string. Other things that I find as benefit is improving sight reading and tempo. If I understand it correctly, there is no (p) involve except for damping.

Beatriz Martin

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Beatriz Martin » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:05 am

Stefan Srećković wrote:The 'apoyando sign' in Sagreras' books isn't necessarily calling for apoyando, but just accentuation.
Ah, that's what some people said at the Spanish forum, I was doing apoyando with my ring finger, it was so odd, I thought that was too much :)

William, in
WilliamTee wrote:If I understand it correctly, there is no (p) involve except for damping.
In Sor's Don't you have to use the thumb to play the bass notes?

Stefan Srećković

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stefan Srećković » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:00 am

Beatriz Martin wrote:Ah, that's what some people said at the Spanish forum, I was doing apoyando with my ring finger, it was so odd, I thought that was too much :)
Yeah, ring finger rest strokes are uncommon. Try to review those lessons starting from lesson 40, but bear in mind that (^) sign calls for accentuation.

User avatar
Marko Räsänen
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3822
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:23 am

Stefan Srećković wrote:Yeah, ring finger rest strokes are uncommon.
What? It's widely used means to accentuate the melody in arpeggio patterns. Sor's B minor study, Spanish Romance, etc. The accentuation can be done without rest stroke, but for the beginner that is probably the easiest way when damping the next string isn't a concern. The rest stroke doesn't need to be heavy. Just enough to make the note stand out a bit.

Besides, in the foreword Sagreras says:
Julio S. Sagreras wrote:... this movement is what I call apoyando, or rest-stroke and is indicated with the sign ^.
Alhambra 4P spruce
Almansa 457 cedar
Cordoba C12 spruce

Stefan Srećković

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stefan Srećković » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:32 am

Marko I'm yet to hear a serious rendition of Spanish Romance that involves accenting the melody line with a ring finger rest stroke. Moreso, how would one achieve it, given the tempo at which it's meant to be played?

User avatar
Marko Räsänen
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3822
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:08 am

You don't consider my rendition serious enough then? :D Find Christopher Parkening's version in Spotify (titled 'Romance'). I'm pretty sure he uses ring finger apoyando there. At least I didn't find my right hand technique limiting the speed. It is the left hand transitions that defines my speed with the piece.
Alhambra 4P spruce
Almansa 457 cedar
Cordoba C12 spruce

Håvard.Bergene
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:12 pm
Location: Norway, Hole

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:21 am

From D05 Lesson 1:
- page 92 Anonyme - Melodía de Sor attribué à Fernando Sor
I recommend that you use rest stroke for the melody notes (upper voice, played with the ring finger).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=23zJ-V5RB7w
Melodia de Sor (aka Romance aka Jeux Interdits) has two different arpeggio directions. The version in D05 uses a(1) i(3) m(2) - a(1) i(3) m(2) (with a playing the melody). Then there is plenty of time to play rest stroke even at the given tempo. I agree that it is more tricky to play the other arpeggio pattern a(1) m(2) i(3) - a(1) m(2) i(3) using ring finger - rest stroke.

Anyway I think it is important to train your ring finger as it will be more used and very important in later lessons :wink:
Alhambra 11P

User avatar
Marko Räsänen
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3822
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:36 am

Also:

D04L05:
Delcamp wrote:- page 54, 55 Sor, Fernando Exercice opus 35 n°22, en si mineur, Segovia n°5... The rest stroke is well suited to bringing out the melody (the upper voice). Use the free stroke to play the accompaniment.
Delcamp wrote:- page 88 Tárrega, Francisco Estudio, en mi minor... Another piece in three voices. Here again I recommend that you use rest stroke for the melody (upper voice). The right-hand fingering is based on the most classic principle: the ring finger plays the first string, the middle finger plays the second, and the index finger plays the third, while the thumb plays strings 4, 5 and 6.
D04L06:
Delcamp wrote:- pages 50, 51 Sor, Fernando Exercice opus 35 n°13, en do majeur, Segovia n°2
This piece consists of a melody with accompaniment. Bring out the melody notes (those with the stem pointing up) by using rest strokes with your third finger. Play the accompaniment (the notes with the stem pointing down) quietly, with gentle free strokes using the thumb, middle and index fingers.
These two simultaneous strokes, one a strongly played rest stroke, the other a gentle free stroke, will seem very difficult, or even impossible, to achieve. But don't worry, my students manage this double stroke after 15 minutes. The first few minutes of practising this right-hand skill are always agonizing for students, because they feel that they will never succeed. In my lessons, my role is to reassure the students and encourage them to persevere. Often, after 15 minutes of repeating the same movements, students start to get there. Sometimes they are quite amazed at having succeeded at what seemed impossible. Because by repeatedly failing to perform rest and free strokes simultaneously, you end up convincing yourself that it's impossible. In short, persevere! Have courage!

Be patient, stay relaxed, don't get annoyed with yourself, don't curse me, just repeat the same movements over and over again while making an effort to get it right. In a few hours or a few days you will achieve mastery of this simultaneous rest and free stroke. This technique is used in the piece "Jeux interdits".
You'll get plenty of practice for that technique in D04.
Alhambra 4P spruce
Almansa 457 cedar
Cordoba C12 spruce

Stefan Srećković

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stefan Srećković » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:37 am

Wow wow wow. I am reasonably convinced and I drop all my charges. :(

Return to “Classical guitar lessons archive”