D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

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Stefan Srećković

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Stefan Srećković » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:05 pm

Well sh*.

Only way to find out is to ask him in person, and to my understanding he's way too busy to be answering PMS.
Got a feeling Marko from D05 is going to jump in, save the day, and shed some light on the matter :war:

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:43 pm

I left my war horse home, hope that's ok Stefan :pace:

Arpeggio is Italian, and means "like a harp". It is customary in guitar literature to write arpeggios with all the notes having the same duration, because it's simpler to read (and write) that way, but they are typically played so that all the notes are kept ringing until the chord changes (in this case each bar consists of a single chord, with the exceptions of bars 7 and 23 where there are two separate chords, and bar 16, where the notes do not form a chord at all). That is when using a technique called 'sequential planting', which I believe professor Delcamp uses in his video. It means that each of the playing right hand fingers are prepared (planted, i.e. lowered on a string the finger is going to play next, effectively stopping the string) just before the finger needs to play.

There is another technique that is used in ascending arpeggios called 'full planting'. It means that p,i&m (&a when used) are always prepared on the strings as one unit just before the thumb plays its note. Fingers still play their individual strings separately as indicated in the music.
Using full planting for this piece would go like this:

count just before 1: plant p, i & m
count 1: play p (alternatively i & m can be planted here at the same time when p plays)
count 2: play i
count 3: play m
count just before 4: plant p, i & m
etc.

There is a short moment when none of the strings are ringing between the plant and playing of p, but typically full plant is used when the arpeggio is very fast (it is easier to play fast using full plant) so there really isn't any pause in music. Full planting isn't used in descending arpeggios (pmi or pami), because the fingers will get in way of each other.

The sequential plant goes like this:
count just before 1: plant p
count 1: play p and plant i either at the same time or immediately after
count 2: play i and plant m either at the same time or immediately after
count 3: play m, but don't plant p until just before it needs to play, because otherwise the bass line becomes intermittent which doesn't sound good.

Now, planting immediately after the other finger has played is something that you need to learn in order to play arpeggios fast, but with slow arpeggios such as the one in this lesson, you would rather aim for planting each finger just before it needs to play, so that the strings keep ringing as long as possible. How much ringing do you want, is also a musical decision that you need to make.
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Beatriz Martin

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Beatriz Martin » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Hi Marko, thanks so much for the explanation, however this explanation is a bit difficult to understand without demonstration. If you or anyone knows a link to a video that explains the planting, please send it as I have heard about this planting before but I can't picture it until I see it. I might look in youtube to see if I find something.
One thing that I find hard to cope with is the rubato. I am beginner learning to read music, I am learning about duration of notes. If the teacher adds rubato I get confused because that means I can't stick to the score.

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Marko Räsänen » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:50 am

Hi Bea,

Search in youtube for 'guitar full planting'. The first hit I got was a video by Bradford Werner, where he demonstrates the planting idea. Another option is William Kanengiser's Effortless Classical Guitar (part 4 of 10 in youtube) but the audio in that one is out of sync with the video.
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Beatriz Martin

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Beatriz Martin » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:01 pm

Thanks Marko, I found both videos, they are excellent!, I knew Bradford Werner but I hadn't seen this video. William Kanegiser's video is wonderful too, there are more of his I have to look at.

Beatriz Martin

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Beatriz Martin » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:01 am

These are my videos :chaud: In the upcoming months I want to improve left hand techniques, I need to relax my left hand, I would like to have my left hand fingers well flexed and closer to the strings, especially my pinky. I need to develop more strength on my ring and pinky so I could do better the chords changes. Dampening properly is of course a big goal to always keep on working.
:merci: for watching and for suggestions, comments.
Now it's time to get ready for Christmas :D
[media]https://youtu.be/3v-s062tv58[/media]
[media]https://youtu.be/osTBQFN-y4Y[/media]
[media]https://youtu.be/vglIsPX2w-w[/media]

Stefan Srećković

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Stefan Srećković » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:21 am

Overall a big improvement in terms of fluidity/legato, but still needs some smoothening out. I can really tell you've put some time into this lesson.

Also, there's a wrong note in your Valse, can't check the score right now I'm about to hit the bed.

Well done Bea, enjoy your Christmas preparations!

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Goran Penic
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Goran Penic » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:29 am

Beatriz Martin wrote:These are my videos
...
:merci: for watching and for suggestions, comments.
...
Bea, very good. Valse will be great when it will be better connected (when it becomes Waltz :) )
When playing Arpeggi you are constantly doing a mistake due to premature chord changes. For example when you are crossing the A7 in (I think) Dm you do not play g as the last note in A7 but e. This is repeated constantly (Dm-Am,G7-C). The hand must remain in the position until the end of stroke.
Otherwise, very nice and clean tone in all performances. Congratulations.
:bye:
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Halil Akaydin
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Halil Akaydin » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:15 pm

Hi Beatriz,

Nice job! Hold the notes in your waltz longer and you'll be all set.

Singing how you want it to sound can help. Your fingers will try to
produce the same sounds on the guitar.

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CarlWestman
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by CarlWestman » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:33 pm

Well, it has been a busy 3 weeks for me. All but a couple days were spent traveling or, if home, feeling ill. I am on the mend, however, but what should have been an easier lesson compared to the earlier ones proved to be just as challenging. Since I was traveling a great deal, when I could practice, I brought along my travel guitar, so that is what I play in these videos. The scale length and nut width of my travel guitar is not unlike the early romantic guitars of Carulli's time, so I felt its use was warranted (though it can be harder to balance and thus play).

Please note, in the Arpeggi, my overgrown male cat "Vino" jumps down with a thud near the halfway point, so he adds a little background sound. I take a look in his direction too. Wanting to have a cat-free audio recording of it, I did record an audio-only version which I will attach as well. Interestingly, I found that it can be synced up pretty well to the same video instead of the original thud-marred track, but I don't feel it would be within the spirit (or letter) of the rules to submit a video with a different audio track. Therefore I attach it separately.

Carulli – Valse en la majeur – http://youtu.be/A-n3z8fWjF4
Gamme en mi mineur no. 10 – http://youtu.be/uY54rzl5-SU
Carulli – Arpeggi di tre note – http://youtu.be/b6zvZbu7f78

I too struggled with finishing chords properly - in my audio-only track, I think I play it a bit more cleanly, but there are more pauses because I'm making point of following through with the final note of the arpeggio for that chord before moving to the next chord. The temptation is to move fingers early so you're not interrupting the flow. Of course, the better solution is to slow down to the point that it can be all complete and smooth.

I add the audio only track (nv = no video) as an *.mp3, figuring the *.wav file is undesirably large, being 10x the size. If I am mistaken and it does not matter, I will gladly upload the larger one. But I am trying to be considerate of the file host's resources.
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Stefan Srećković

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Stefan Srećković » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:51 pm

You reminded me of Benjamin Button in that Carulli piece :D Nine seconds in you've had the same exact facial expression :D

Image
Clean takes overall. I still think you should experiment with your nails. Flesh playing in conjunction with your travel guitar makes a distinct plasticky sound. :war:

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CarlWestman
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by CarlWestman » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:06 pm

So you're saying I look like Brad Pitt?

Beatriz Martin

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Beatriz Martin » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:32 pm

Thank you Stefan, Goran and Halil for your advice.

Halil, thanks for reminding me about singing. I have heard singing helps, I never remember to try, it doesn't come naturally for me to do it, but I should start trying until I build a habit.
Goran Penic wrote: When playing Arpeggi you are constantly doing a mistake due to premature chord changes. For example when you are crossing the A7 in (I think) Dm you do not play g as the last note in A7 but e. This is repeated constantly (Dm-Am,G7-C). The hand must remain in the position until the end of stroke.
Oh, gosh, I am so glad you found this mistake, I wouldn't have realized I was doing that. Phew I don't know how I am going to play the last note of the chord and change quickly to the next chord, I guess just practice practice practice. :merci: Goran.

Beatriz Martin

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Beatriz Martin » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:35 pm

:bravo: Carl,

I love your little guitar :!: Very creative of you to play these pieces with that guitar :D

Robert Goodwin

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 04

Post by Robert Goodwin » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:07 pm

Everyone,
Please remember to tune your guitars before recording. For help with tuning and sites that directly provide tuning assistance see the FAQ-tuning.

Best regards,
Bob G.

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