D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Marko Räsänen » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:08 pm

The results are up! Congratulations Håvard and Pat! Well deserved honorificas.
:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Amazingly accurate prediction from Eric what comes to English forum participants. Overall very good job from English forum D05!
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by EricKatz » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:48 pm

Congratulations to all my fellow on line-students on the English forum.
:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
@Pat: accurate and precise as always
@Havard: this time not only the right "feel" of the piece, but technically fully in control (the latter being often a problem during the course)
@Marko: good, but not the performance quality you showed during the lessons. Maybe a bit stressed?
@myself: had to spend my time on other (stressfull) things. By the time I had to make the recording, it went wrong so many times, that even the best take could not satisfy me. It would have been nice to go on and produce finally a recording that was satisfying. But time was up. I can live with it, because I think the recording equals my performance if I would have had to perform in front of the jury, in real time.

I am very glad to have joined this talented group. Hope to see you all next year!! :bye:

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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:25 pm

Thanks for that Geoff... I've not used the PM more than a couple of times... I began too suspect this was the case :)

:merci: Marko :merci: Eric
Very well judged Eric 8/14 :bravo:

:merci: for all comments this year. I look forward to next year. I've really enjoyed many of the pieces this year. Hopefully there will be many more next year (I've only occasionally had time to visit D06 ).

I'm not sure I could have given my performance live, but I made 14 recordings before the one I posted, and I had 7 release candidates (each with one or two hiccups). I think the one week with slow playing was beneficial:-)

:bravo: Piero, Pat, Marko and Eric
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Marko Räsänen » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:51 pm

Hi Eric,

I fully agree what you wrote about Pat's and Håvard's performance.
Eric de Vries wrote:@Marko: good, but not the performance quality you showed during the lessons. Maybe a bit stressed?
I don't think I was anymore stressed than in general when making lesson recordings, at least not during this particular take. I would be very interested to know, which specific parts/things or in which specific way did my performance quality suffer in your opinion, compared to the lesson recordings? As I said earlier, I think I succeeded well in this particular recording, or at least better than my usual lesson recordings considering the difficulty of the piece. It could be just that: This was a difficult piece for me, but yet it was so simple that I thought only very little mistakes were allowed. Therefore I concentrated too much on playing each note clean, and some other aspects suffered in the process. It could be that the jury appreciated more faster and more confident musical approaches. I did some faster versions that were perhaps less clean, but most notably I couldn't get much feeling into them, and I didn't want to submit something my heart really wasn't part of. In retrospect I also think I made the slides too pronounced.

Also I decided to change into my spruce top, I hadn't played much during the year, because I liked the sound of it for this piece more. The action is higher than my cedar top used to have (after recording the exam piece I decided to return to the original nut and saddle of my cedar top; I simply now prefer the sound of the original higher action, and got rid of the 4th string back buzz), which caused some issues with legato.

In the end I don't think it's any one particular thing why I didn't get the top grade. My playing of the exam piece simply wasn't good enough for the top marks, and I don't think changing the interpretation or the guitar would have changed things much for me. And as I definitely couldn't have played the piece "live" as well as I did in the recording, I don't think I would have deserved a better grade. Although two of the five judges were missing from the panel, so there's always the "what ifs" :lol:
Eric de Vries wrote:@myself: had to spend my time on other (stressfull) things. By the time I had to make the recording, it went wrong so many times, that even the best take could not satisfy me. It would have been nice to go on and produce finally a recording that was satisfying. But time was up. I can live with it, because I think the recording equals my performance if I would have had to perform in front of the jury, in real time.
I'm really sorry to hear that, because I think it would have meant to you a lot to produce a recording you were satisfied with. I know all too well myself that on some nights the recordings just aren't going to happen, and trying again will just increase the stress, and it's not wise to continue then. :desole: that you didn't have the chance to try on another night. Let's console ourselves with the fact that there's D06 waiting and another chance to prove ourselves in a year!
Eric de Vries wrote:I am very glad to have joined this talented group. Hope to see you all next year!! :bye:
I'm glad to hear you'll be onboard the next year. I've always enjoyed our discussions and listening to your interpretations :bye:
Håvard.Bergene wrote:I think the one week with slow playing was beneficial:-)
Based on your exam recording it definitely was! Your accuracy and tone was really much improved compared to the lesson recordings!
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:54 pm

... and maybe the change of strings, and very short, newly polished nails... (I have to work more on sound production...)

About your performance, Marko, my first impression was that you had to many "micro pauses" that stopped the natural flow of the melody. I've just listened again, and here are the approximate positions of the micro pauses:
0:05, 0:09, 0:15, 0:19, 0:29, 1:10 (I had one similiar I think), 1:38, 1:48, 1:58, 2:14. Some of them might be intentional, but this is the way I can describe it best. Otherwise the recording is very good sounding, and lovely to listen to. :casque:

:merci: again for your last comment of my last recording of Arrependida. It was spot on, and I was able to have a more relaxed approach in El Sueño de la Muñeqita. Also :merci: for convincing me to focus on D05 only :D :chaud:
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Stewart Doyle » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:56 pm

Congratulations to you all, particularly Håvard and Marko who I had the pleasure of working with during D04 and D03/D04 respectively. I just wish I could have kept up with you both and taken D05 this year. However I'm sure I made the right decision by repeating D04. I just hope the D05 group next year is as vibrant and supportive as it seems to have been this year.

Best wishes,

Stewart
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:13 pm

:merci: Stewart. I think some of the posts from this year will be a good resource (remember to check the archives), and I'll try check in on D05 by now and then next year, although I think D06 will be rather time consuming.
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Pat Hargan » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:59 pm

Håvard, Marko, Eric, congratulations on your results. :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

An exam is, after all, only a milestone, but it is good to know that one is on the right track. I think we have all made good progress since the beginning of the year, and I have really enjoyed working with all of you and hearing your advice, criticism and encouragement, and sharing your knowledge and insight. :merci: :discussion:

I am sure that we will have just as interesting a selection of pieces next year (I admit, I had a first look at some of them today... :chaud:), and I am looking forward to working with you all again in D06. :bye:
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:55 am

Thanks Stewart! I too try to pop in at D05 threads next semester from time to time to offer some comments.

Thank you for your comments regarding the micro pauses, Håvard! Eric was talking about essentially the same thing in his email to me (Thank you Eric, I will reply to you soon). I'm not sure how interested you are about further analysis of those issues, but as it may generate more of interesting discussion, I'll try to explain the difficulties I had with with this piece.

0:05 (transition between bars 2 and 3): It's very difficult for me to move finger 4 from the 4th string into the 1st without either making the open 4th string sound "by accident" (which I seem to be doing on occasion anyway), or cutting the accompaniment short, which I don't like musically (2nd beat staccato sounds ok in waltz, but 3rd beat staccato I don't like). I didn't realize the pause was so distracting (or noticeable), though I should have. I am using my RH thumb to damp the 4th string right after playing the 6th string bass, as a kind of 'insurance', but at that point the damage is already done. I probably should have thought of a better fingering, although there doesn't seem to be any obvious alternatives that allow for legato melody.

0:09 (transition between bars 5 and 6): This pause is completely to avoid string noise caused by hard callous in my finger '2'. It was the choice between cutting the bass note 'e' short, or slightly delaying the next bar. The proper thing would have been to get rid of / soften the callouses. This is definitely something I need to keep in mind for next year.

0:15 (transition between bars 10 and 11): This is essentially the same as 0:05, although the 1st string is now fingered with '3'. '4' on the 4th string needs to let go of the string softly before the '3' can reach the 1st string.

0:19 (transition between bars 13 and 14): I lift the barre momentarily in order to stop the 6th string, which causes the delay. I wonder if others are just able to do it faster, lift it already when playing the last note of the arpeggio, use some other form of damping (such as side of the thumb, which I don't like to use as it sacrifices the tone of my thumb stroke), or let the 'B' bass note ring?

0:29 (transition between bars 21 and 22): Not sure what happened there. Sounds like simple hesitation, memory lapse, or a musical decision (adding micropauses for consistency :D )

1:10 and 1:38 (transition between bars 54 and 55) : Never really had much problems with that section before the take that ended up into exam. I think it was caused by tension that caused me to miss the 6th string with 'a' finger, or some sort of hesitation. These two were clearly mistakes that I just chose to accept. Not intentional or compromise or anything like that.

2:14 (transition between bars 25 and 26) : I believe this is hesitation caused by finger '4' not being ready on time. I possibly wanted to play it safe having almost reached the end of the piece.

The rest of the time stamps, I believe, are repeats of these.
Pat Hargan wrote:An exam is, after all, only a milestone, but it is good to know that one is on the right track.
Indeed! This is why I really appreciate the feedback from others. I don't so much care about the exam result itself, but it would be good to hear some major points that need improvement, because otherwise the grade feels just a bit random (of course there is nothing random with honorifica :) )
Håvard.Bergene wrote: :merci: again for your last comment of my last recording of Arrependida. It was spot on, and I was able to have a more relaxed approach in El Sueño de la Muñeqita. Also :merci: for convincing me to focus on D05 only :D :chaud:
In this light, I'm really happy it all turned out well in the end :lol:
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Marko Räsänen » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:56 am

Marko Räsänen wrote:0:19 (transition between bars 13 and 14): I lift the barre momentarily in order to stop the 6th string, which causes the delay. I wonder if others are just able to do it faster, lift it already when playing the last note of the arpeggio, use some other form of damping (such as side of the thumb, which I don't like to use as it sacrifices the tone of my thumb stroke), or let the 'B' bass note ring?
As this has been troubling me a bit I watched the performances of everyone of us in English D05 in slow motion, but the only information I came up was that Håvard uses a different right hand fingering here compared to everyone else. He damps the B with the thumb which leaves only i,m&a to handle the strings 4 to 1, which means offsetting the right hand right at the middle of the bar so that a finger can reach the 1st string. I'm not sure whether I could manage that myself. Will have to try it! Everyone else seems to use the thumb for the 4th string 'a', like I do, but Eric and Pat do not seem to lift the barre, so I'm not sure how exactly are they damping the low B.
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:35 pm

Here is what I do...
From bar 13: (I play rest stroke with thumb) p,i,m,a,m,i p&m (damp B), i&m,a,m (I think that all the practice on the arpeggios in the Allegro part of La Catedral has paid off.)
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:30 am

Thanks Håvard! That's how I thought you played it.
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