D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:11 pm

Here's the best take of Paganini I managed tonight.

[media]https://youtu.be/sH_Y27pNDpo[/media]

I'm beginning to notice that the pieces I have recorded become easier to play after the recording. I hope that's the case with this sonata as well :D
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Goran Penic
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Goran Penic » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:09 am

Hi all.
The last time I was very busy at work so much that I could not participate in the forum. However I want to congratulate you all on your recordings. :bravo:
Tarrega:
[media]https://youtu.be/83jW37gQMdQ[/media]
:merci: for watching.
:bye:
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by EricKatz » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:07 am

:bravo: Very good, Goran!

Good to see that you were only temporarely off the scene! Sometimes it's hard to do the lessons next to your job or other things of life, especially when there is only three weeks time.

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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Marko Räsänen » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:25 am

:bravo: Goran!

You played very consistently, and without hesitation, and the parts played in higher positions sounded especially good! I am hesitating to offer you any criticism, because your performance was technically so good. But if I must point out something to improve, that would be to play even more legato. The only way to improve that, in my opinion, is to play scales regularly.

Hopefully you'll find more time for the forum! :bye:
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Marko Räsänen » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:23 pm

I decided to have another go with Bach Prelude, this time with more brisk tempo. I didn't sleep too well the last night, so I was feeling quite tired when recording this, and thought it would be kind of fun experiment, as I never really record feeling this exhausted. The positive side is that the adrenaline from the recording didn't make me as nervous as usual, but on the negative side there is some 'devil may care' attitude, struggle to keep focused, some strange mistakes and difficulty with right hand fingering in spots that I don't usually find difficult.

I would very much like to hear your opinion especially when it comes to musicality of my playing compared to the previous take. Does this sound better? More rushed? More accented? More hesitant?

[media]https://youtu.be/_R8CWLJKUA4[/media]

:merci: for listening!
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by piero zaninetti » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:07 pm

Joh.Seb. Bach : Prelude BWV 1007
F. Tarrega: Estudio en mi mayor
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:37 pm

:bravo: Pat and Marko. I'm really impressed by the endurance you both show in the Paganini. I've only just started to look at the sonata, and first tries are ... :?
And I also like your de Abreu, Pat. I think you manage to bring out the melody very well. I'd like a softer and maybe more Brazilian feel to the accompaniment. I'll try post my progress so far in a few days, although I might be to busy this week.
:bravo: Goran. Very good work. I like the small variations in tempo, defining the phrases.
:bravo: Marko on the second recording of Bach. I think it is clearly an improvement to the first recording. I like it :casque:
:bravo: Piero.
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by EricKatz » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:22 am

Hi Marko, may be my remarks on the first version were a little brusk and pendant :desole: but this version definitely sounds better!! :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
I like the variation in volume, the little accentuation of the first note of some bars by playing it a bit longer, the steady rhythm. It's played with self confidence (although you called it "the devil may care"). Maybe you should have more bad nights! :lol:

(I'm almost ready to record the Prelude, but I will be travelling for business on wednesday and thursday.)

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Marko Räsänen » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:39 am

:merci: Håvard and Eric!

Eric, I agree that this version sounds better. I haven't been practicing the prelude too much between the previous recording and this one, so I think it's about confidence. No worries about the previous comments. I realized that the previous version was in many ways lacking, and I think you managed to highlight some things that I needed to fix. The recording nerves has become to me a serious obstacle preventing me from conveying the music the way I hear it myself, and because of that I tend to play it too safe (I believe you called that 'walking on the egg shells'). One strategy to fight that is to post multiple takes over the lesson. The second take is always more relaxed than the first one, as the pressure is off. Very small amounts of alcohol or being tired seems to be useful as well, but there are some negative effects. Learning an efficient relaxation technique would probably be the best option.

Also the new low microphone position seems to give much better recording balance between the bass and treble strings. There's a thick carpet between the floor and microphone to eliminate most of the early reflections from the floor to the microphone. The microphone is now about 50cm above the floor and perhaps as far in front of the guitar.

Good luck with your recording!
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Marko Räsänen » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:56 pm

Piero, your Bach sounds good, but I would rather hear a complete performance with mistakes left in, than something copy pasted together from 3 or more separate takes. It also would be courteus towards other students to let them know that you have edited the piece together from smaller parts. After all, we're here learning how to play guitar, not how to use editing programs, and how do you expect to get any relevant feedback to improve as a guitarist if you edit out all your mistakes? Not having a video to look at makes it difficult enough to give you any feedback.
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Pat Hargan » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:26 pm

:bravo: Marko. Great job on the Paganini! Did you try that alternative damping technique in the rondocino? You don't seem to need it, as the damping there is very crisp using your thumb (btw, this is a good camera angle for showing your right hand), I'm just interested to know what you thought of it. One other question about RH fingering: in bar 17 of the initial section, you play the bass semiquavers with your thumb; did you find that easier than i-p-i?

I too prefer this version of the Bach prelude. Sure, there are a few mistakes, but this is more than compensated for by the greater fluency and relaxed performance. I know what you mean about the problems of recording - the process itself adds an unwelcome level of self-consciousness that makes a good performance difficult, and that's on top of the distractions of mic placement, getting a good level, camera angle etc. I am hoping that the more videos I make, the more I will get used to being on camera so that I can more or less forget about it, but maybe I'll try doing my next video when I'm tired... :)

:bravo: Goran, you play the Tarrega study very nicely, and the shifts between positions are smooth and accurate.

:bravo: Piero.
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by piero zaninetti » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:36 pm

Marko Räsänen wrote:Here's the best take of Paganini I managed tonight.



I'm beginning to notice that the pieces I have recorded become easier to play after the recording. I hope that's the case with this sonata as well :D
Bravo Marko
  compliments especially for your ability to study the works requested , so fast and efficient. You've got a great result in all songs. :bravo: :bravo: :bye:

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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:14 am

:merci: Piero and Pat! I had some extra time to spend practicing during this lesson.

Regarding the damping in bars 9-11 in rondocino, I found that for bars 9 and 11 adding 'i' to the mix was just unnecessarily complicating things, as the only reason to do so was not having to damp 'A' with thumb, but that damping pretty much comes for free by using (a light) thumb rest stroke for the 3rd quaver 'E'. Therefore I didn't use 'i' for bass notes in those bars.

Bar 10 is a different matter, and there I found that I have two options: Either use just thumb, which practically means that the 2nd quaver 'A' needs to be played staccato (or left ringing, which doesn't sound good). Or use 'i' to play the 3rd quaver 'D' allowing the 'A' to sustain longer before damped with thumb. The problem is, that having initially learned using the first way, unless I'm really concentrating, I still tend to play the 'A' short, and sometimes forget to play 'D' with 'i'. So to answer your question, for bar 10 I find both ways equally difficult (or easy), the difference being how long can I sustain the 2nd quaver 'A'. I also don't see much difference in damping the 3rd quaver with thumb regardless of which finger was used to play it. The trick is to use the same movement we practiced in the first lesson (I think) with those simultaneous playing and damping (with different fingers) exercise. It's basically like playing a block chord with all four fingers, i.e. plant all the fingers at the same time, but just don't play the thumb.

Regarding bar 17 of the intro, I find using i-p-i both difficult and not very satisfying tone-wise. In the recording those thumb strokes aren't very accurately timed. I think I usually make a better job with that, but cannot really be sure. There is a similar study among Giuliani's 120, and I find that very difficult as well. The index finger needs to be so much flexed that producing a good tone with it becomes very difficult. Another thing is that playing the wound strings with i/m/a roughens the nails worsening the tone, and I find that I need to buff them more often, so I tend to avoid unnecessarily playing the bass strings with those 'melody' fingers if it can be easily avoided. I still do scale practice with them normally, and use them for bass strings when i-m alternation is needed. Isn't p-i alternation supposed to be quite old school anyway? :D

For me the process of playing for video seems to be of unpredictable nature. Sometimes it goes easier than expected, and I end up doing 3 takes that get progressively better, and just post the last one. Other times (as was the case with Sonata) my playing gets progressively worse, and I begin to experience all the symptoms of stage fright. Sonata was especially difficult because on Sunday I had filed down my nails, and as that cold sweat got into my fingers, the nails just seemed to disappear inside the fingers. Mental note to self: when having to perform, allow one or two days of nail growth before the performance. What was required for sonata recording to succeed was a single sip of wine to calm the nerves.

In my opinion, even if you keep the camera on all the time during the practice, things just change when you know you are recording for real. At that moment, for me at least, it stops to be about stopping to polish any section you happen to have problems with, and starts being about getting it first time right. For the first time with that specific piece of music, there starts to exist a possibility of failure. As long as you're just practicing, you cannot fail. I guess that's really the key, and also explains why recording the same piece for the second time is so much easier. Failing to improve upon a previous success isn't nearly as bad as failing altogether.
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:04 am

Here is my Tarrega. As usual to fast for playing all parts cleanly :?
[media]https://youtu.be/wDU-idKPJDQ[/media]

And de Abreu. I'm still working on some of the difficult bars... When recording, I managed bar 5+6 a couple of times, but then I got so excited that I failed bad in the following bars. :desole: about the lack of concentration in some places...
[media]https://youtu.be/izxIvGTMc-M[/media]
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 08

Post by Marko Räsänen » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:21 pm

Håvard :bravo: ,

I can only imagine how difficult it was to record the Abreu piece. I haven't tried to do that myself, as I haven't felt I've been ready to do that, and now it looks like I won't have enough time to do that. I've been playing it pretty much the same way as you did, so I can't really give any ideas about interpretation. I think you did a good job with sustaining the notes that should be sustained, and bringing out the melody. You just need more practice to make it more fluent. I think your tone was also very nice this time. Bar 6 is a very difficult one, and I think it needs to be practiced very slowly and increasing the tempo little by little. I spotted a reading error in bars 34 & 50. You seem to play 'E' instead of 'D#' as the bass note. :bye:
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