D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

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CarlWestman
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Q on Sor piece

Post by CarlWestman » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:26 pm

Forgive me if I've asked this before in an earlier lesson.

On Sor Lesson XV Op. 60, measures 10 and 11: the dotted half note for F# is tied from measures 10 to 11. However, at the end of measure 10, the sixth eighth note of the measure is another F#, which seems to prematurely end the dotted half note from the beginning of the measure. So we are to play it again just before measure 11?

Also (perhaps not the same answer): in measure 11, the third melody note of the measure is an F#, which if played would stop the dotted half note even earlier in the measure - and what's more, its not value is only an eighth, so (in theory) there would be no F# from the midpoint of measure 11 to the end.

Measure 12 has the same thing going on as measure 11, in effect.

So do we play these F# notes while the "bass" F# is supposed to keep ringing out?

Thanks.

Håvard.Bergene
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:50 pm

Hi Carl. Yes, play the F#'s. Just let them ring after playing it. Don't worry about damping the arpeggios unless there are damping(*)marks. Also in the end of bar 12 I think you should damp the last 1/8 part of the bass.
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Mariano Martínez Gallego
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Mariano Martínez Gallego » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:46 pm

Marko Räsänen wrote:Carl, sorry I cannot help you with the problem, but I am a little doubtful whether playing along with a recording is a useful study aid. My main concern is that by concentrating on mimicking someone else's playing, you won't develop the sense of pulse for the piece (rubato that works at high speed, can sound plain odd when slowed down), nor understanding of the musical ideas within the piece. Also, I think that even by slowing down the recording, you will be tempted to practice the piece too fast, not really concentrating on your technique. I am somewhat referring to your minuet recording from the previous lesson here. :desole:

Then there's also the 'learning to read music' -aspect, especially when it comes to understanding the written rhythm.

I would suggest not to play along with the recording at least for the first week of practice. Rather use the recordings to practice reading music.
Marko Räsänen

ok :contrat: :bravo:
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Mariano Martínez Gallego
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Mariano Martínez Gallego » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:59 pm

Marko Räsänen wrote:Fair enough, Carl. It looks like there was no basis for my concern.

On the matter of being singled out, I understand how you may get that feeling, but as far as the critique I offer is concerned, you shouldn't feel that way. First, unfortunately I don't have the time to listen to every performance posted on these lessons, but for those that I do, I don't nearly always comment, usually because I don't feel I have any advice to give. Or even if I do, I may not simply have the time at the moment. So it's always more or less random. The exception being my own class mates for whom I always try to comment something. I also tend to base my comments more on the actual performance in the recording when it comes to my class mates. For other class levels I tend to focus on hopefully helpful comments, and not compare anyone's performance to that of others, except for an occasional bravo, when someone's playing is exceptionally good, or I can see they've worked really hard.

On the specific matter of the tempo of your menuet, for me it never was the question of being too fast to suit musically, but two other things: 1) your chosen tempo was such that you couldn't play it through completely using the same tempo, and 2) on the parts that you played using faster tempo, it was too fast to play it clean, using legato articulation, which I think is very important for the menuet.

As long as your technique is developing (and I think it's safe to say that will be during the remainder of all the lesson levels here; not just for you, but for every student here), it's always better to play too slow than too fast, if you're only thinking about the technical development and learning. We all do however play pieces too fast / beyond our technical abilities because most pieces will sound better that way, unless playing fast means playing sloppy. In the end I don't think it matters too much which tempo is chosen for the recording posted here. What really matters is the tempo used for practice (it should be slow enough to not learn mistakes, but fast enough to be technically challenging), but unfortunately it is from those recordings that we must infer how the player is practicing and offer criticism based on that.

You're right to ignore the tempo marking in the sheet music. Many times they're just ridiculously high, and would require the technique of a professional musician to reach. None of us are concert musicians, but I think we all want to get better in our hobby, and I think it's important to discuss the practice methods too in order to improve. I sometimes get a feeling here that very few people are willing to actually take heed of the advice given by others, probably because the advice isn't coming from a proper teacher. And it's not necessarily that they disagree with the advice, or if they do, they don't express it, just ignore the advice. Which is fine, as I understand that they really don't want any feedback. I'm not speaking of you Carl, nor any of your class mates, nor anyone in particular. Just a feeling I get in general here in the English online lessons forum. It could be just me though :D
Hello Marco.

We invite you to the Spanish Forum.

All that you mention, I agree.

Now if you want to see it, please read the Forum and you will see.

A greeting.
Mariano.

Note: We always repeat the videos when there are comments, until it succeeds.
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Marko Räsänen » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:15 am

Thank you for the invitation, Mariano, but unfortunately I cannot communicate in Spanish at all, and find that online translators do a poor job on a subject as specific as classical guitar playing. :desole:
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Mariano Martínez Gallego
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Mariano Martínez Gallego » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:21 am

Marko Räsänen wrote:Thank you for the invitation, Mariano, but unfortunately I cannot communicate in Spanish at all, and find that online translators do a poor job on a subject as specific as classical guitar playing. :desole:
Understand you Marko.

I just wanted you know that you're not going astray.

A greeting.
Mariano.


Te entiendo Marko.

Solo quería que supieras que no vas descaminado.

Un saludo. :bye:
Mariano.
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Haris Karachristianidis
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Haris Karachristianidis » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:57 pm

Is there any way to keep free mi (6th) quiet in Esteve Ejercicio No 6? It resonates a lot especially in some measures like 3 (where mi in 4th string exist) ..
Should we ignore it? I don't like it. :(
Last edited by Haris Karachristianidis on Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mariano Martínez Gallego
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Mariano Martínez Gallego » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:05 pm

Haris Karachristianidis wrote:Is there any way to keep free mi (6th) quiet in Esteve Ejercicio No 6? It resonates a lot especially in some measyres like 3 (where mi in 4th string exist) ..
Should we ignore it? I don't like it. :(
Hello Haris.

I see that nobody responds.

Not be well translated English.
I don't understand your question.

You can put it in other words.

A greeting
Mariano.
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Haris Karachristianidis
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Haris Karachristianidis » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:02 am

Thank you Mariano! When I play mi on the 4th string I listen the free 6th string. Of course this is normal and happens always, but in this piece because the bass line is loud it is worse.

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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Mariano Martínez Gallego » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:57 am

Haris Karachristianidis wrote:Thank you Mariano! When I play mi on the 4th string I listen the free 6th string. Of course this is normal and happens always, but in this piece because the bass line is loud it is worse.

Hello Haris.

Difficult you have fix it. :lol:
No fingers, you are to turn off.
Left hand busy.
Right hand. Thumb pressing.
I can think of.
:idea: After pressing 'E', support the thumb on the 6th string.

Very good hearing.

A greeting.
Mariano.


Note: Sorry my English. He is a translator
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Håvard.Bergene
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Håvard.Bergene » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:16 pm

I've not looked deep into the sympatetic reseonance issue in this piece now. But generally you may damp the vibrating(unwanted) with either the right hand or the left hand. Whatever is available. There are several exercises in D03 Lesson 1...
D03 Page 86 Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) STRING DAMPING
These techniques are essential in polyphonic playing. Guitar playing is unique in that we must stop the resonances, in particular those of the open strings. Without these string damping techniques, polyphony is blurred by dissonance.
D03 Classical guitar lesson 01

This is how I think I'd do it in bar 3:
1.Play the E on 4th string (causing the open E on 6th to vibrate because of resonance) with p-finger.
Then as soon as possible damp the 6th string with p (careful not to make noise with the nail touching the 6th).
2. Then play the CG and C normally.
3. you repeat the same maneuver as in 1.
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Mariano Martínez Gallego » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:32 pm

Hello Havard.
Thanks for the note.

I was watching it, perfect.

Understood that shuts down with the thumb after pressing the "Mi".

A greeting. :bye:
Mariano.
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Haris Karachristianidis
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Haris Karachristianidis » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:56 pm

Thank you Håvard!

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:53 am

The third bar is harmonically C major chord, so the resonating 'e' shouldn't be an issue during that bar (when playing the bass note 'c'). However in bar 4 the harmony goes back to G major, and there the resonating 6th string becomes annoying. So my suggestion is to damp the 6th string with right hand thumb as soon as you have played the bass note 'd' (roughly at the same time as i and m are playing 'g' and 'b').
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 09

Post by Mariano Martínez Gallego » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:45 am

You can do a test.
Stepping on Sun, 6 rope.
Playing Re, 4th string in the air.
Gently lift the rope 6th finger. It does not vibrate.

Stepping on Sun, 6 rope.
Touch the Sun. 3rd rope into the air.
Gently lift the rope 6th finger. It vibrates.

But the 6th string vibrates when you click the 3rd string.

A greeting
Mariano.
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