[JPG] Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter (LH workout)

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David Norton
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[JPG] Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter (LH workout)

Post by David Norton » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:56 pm

A brand-new exercise piece, "The Duke of Exeter's Daughter". This is the name of a rack-style torture device from 1477, on display in the Tower of London. The composition is meant as an exercise in five-fret left hand stretches, and is inspired by similar reaches found in some compositions of Francis Cutting, Alonso Mudarra, or Domenico Scarlatti.

Note that this is an EXERCISE, and makes no pretensions toward Great Art, or even toward Okay Art.

I myself cannot play it cleanly (yet) and I would be very appreciative to receive news that someone actually CAN play it.
Duke of Exeter Daughter.jpg
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Last edited by David Norton on Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by riffmeister » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:04 am

:mrgreen:

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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by David Norton » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:04 am

There. Finally.
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by riffmeister » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:12 am

"The Rack"

;)

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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by David Norton » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:58 am

The worst part (for me) is last line, m.2, holding both the bass G -and- treble B for the full four counts, while also getting that final E on the 5th string. It CAN be done, but a challenge.
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by chiral3 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:38 pm

I think holding the whole note A and going from D# to B in m2 is probably the meanest measure.
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:46 pm

I'm not at a guitar...but later today I'll definitely give it a go, and do a very raw video of it for you David. BTW - are you married to the fingerings on the page?
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by David Norton » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:02 pm

Nick Cutroneo wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:46 pm
I'm not at a guitar...but later today I'll definitely give it a go, and do a very raw video of it for you David. BTW - are you married to the fingerings on the page?
The fingerings are selected to demand difficult stretches. If it were meant as a "performance piece" I'd finger it differently. Heck, I'd have WRITTEN it differently!!

Third line, bar 2: a barre would make things easier, which violates the stretching purpose.

Last line, bar 1, last note (F#) - unfingered intentionally, because I can see a rationalization for either 2 or 1 to be used. Ideally 2, so 1 can prep for the barre as well as sustaining that F# longer, but there's no way I can make that stretch.
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by David Norton » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:04 pm

chiral3 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:38 pm
I think holding the whole note A and going from D# to B in m2 is probably the meanest measure.
"Meanest" is a relative term. :lol: The last line is a real challenge. But yes the intent is to make things difficult.
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by chiral3 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:47 pm

David Norton wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:04 pm
chiral3 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:38 pm
I think holding the whole note A and going from D# to B in m2 is probably the meanest measure.
"Meanest" is a relative term. :lol: The last line is a real challenge. But yes the intent is to make things difficult.
IMG_0090.jpg
This one is mean too. Simple yet hard, at least to play it the way it is written. It's the 9th bar from the Sarabande of 997 (one of the few lute suites I've been able to play rather well all the way through) out of Koonce. What makes it a little evil isn't so much the stretch, which I would think most people could do, but playing the slur on the first string without it sounding... unslurred.

As you can see, and I probably wrote this 10 years ago and haven't thought about since, I took the bottom voice up an octave. I think when I do play it with the stretch I use 2 on the G and 4 on the A.
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:01 pm

David Norton wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:02 pm
The fingerings are selected to demand difficult stretches. If it were meant as a "performance piece" I'd finger it differently. Heck, I'd have WRITTEN it differently!!
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Some of your fingering choices in this piece simply aren't options that I'd ever pick, especially given the alternate fingerings. IE the D# being played on the 4th string in mm. 2, play the high A with 1 and use the 2nd finger for the D# on the 5th string and the B on the 6th with 3. Aside from that being a more conventional fingering, it allows the player to learn a more useful skill (to me) which is keeping the continuity of the melodic line while shifting to a new position. This is a skill which a player will most often use, as we do it all the time while playing more complex pieces.

There's a difference between difficulty because of a certain note selection and choosing a difficult fingering for "technical" purposes. That's what exercises are for - not composed music (in my opinion).
Third line, bar 2: a barre would make things easier, which violates the stretching purpose.
That fingering makes perfect sense as it allows the melody to be 100% independent from the accompaniment (especially the held b7 of the B7 chord).
Last line, bar 1, last note (F#) - unfingered intentionally, because I can see a rationalization for either 2 or 1 to be used. Ideally 2, so 1 can prep for the barre as well as sustaining that F# longer, but there's no way I can make that stretch.
Unless you've got hands the side of giants, I'd be using 1. In fact, it forces the player to be aware of the sustaining line and learning how to release the 1st finger and prep for a barre in a manner which doesn't interfere with the musical line(s).
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by David Norton » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:00 pm

Nick Cutroneo wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:01 pm
David Norton wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:02 pm
The fingerings are selected to demand difficult stretches. If it were meant as a "performance piece" I'd finger it differently. Heck, I'd have WRITTEN it differently!!
Some of your fingering choices in this piece simply aren't options that I'd ever pick, especially given the alternate fingerings. IE the D# being played on the 4th string in mm. 2, play the high A with 1 and use the 2nd finger for the D# on the 5th string and the B on the 6th with 3. Aside from that being a more conventional fingering, it allows the player to learn a more useful skill (to me) which is keeping the continuity of the melodic line while shifting to a new position. This is a skill which a player will most often use, as we do it all the time while playing more complex pieces.
The D#/4th + A/1st is the "thought kernel" which this thing grew from. That same passage occurs in a Fantasia by Mudarra (not the "harp one"), a Pavin by Cutting, and the B section of Scarlatti L 352 in e minor, Segovia arrangement.

I agree - your proposal makes more sense in a performance situation. This isn't meant as a performing piece, it's meant as a stretching effort.

Nick Cutroneo wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:01 pm

Unless you've got hands the side of giants, I'd be using 1. In fact, it forces the player to be aware of the sustaining line and learning how to release the 1st finger and prep for a barre in a manner which doesn't interfere with the musical line(s).
Agree, 1 makes more sense. But some folks DO have "hands the size of giants".

[Edit for spelling.]
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:01 am

David Norton wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:00 pm

Agree, 1 makes more sense. But some folks DO have "hands the size of giants".

YES! I'm working on a piece by Frank Wallace (American Composer from New Hampshire). He's got a fairly nice reach - and I've got to change fingering at times. He'll be the first one to say "It's ok to change some of my fingering". Another that comes to mind is any edition by Eliot Fisk...
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter (LH workout)

Post by riffmeister » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:23 pm

David Norton wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:56 pm
A brand-new exercise piece, "The Duke of Exeter's Daughter". This is the name of a rack-style torture device from 1477, on display in the Tower of London. The composition is meant as an exercise in five-fret left hand stretches, and is inspired by similar reaches found in some compositions of Francis Cutting, Alonso Mudarra, or Domenico Scarlatti.

Note that this is an EXERCISE, and makes no pretensions toward Great Art, or even toward Okay Art.

I myself cannot play it cleanly (yet) and I would be very appreciative to receive news that someone actually CAN play it.

Duke of Exeter Daughter.jpg
David, my friend was able to play this on an electric guitar with no problem whatsoever! :mrgreen:
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Re: Norton, David - The Duke of Exeter's Daughter (LH workout)

Post by djwilliams » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:17 am

That guys hand looks like a 5 legged spider!

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