Milán, Luys - Pavana 2- D04 - Lute Video - No file

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Valéry Sauvage
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Milán, Luys - Pavana 2- D04 - Lute Video - No file

Post by Valéry Sauvage » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:50 am

Another pavan from the serie...
V. ;-)

http://www.vimeo.com/3293799
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Re: Milan, Luys - Pavana (2) - Lute

Post by Vesuvio » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:07 am

Hello Val,

Another delightful recording—thank you very much,

Best wishes, V :) :merci:
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Valéry Sauvage
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Re: Milan, Luys - Pavana (2) - Lute

Post by Valéry Sauvage » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:46 am

Thanks V., this one is probably the most interesting of the six pavans by Milan, the contapuntic writing is very rich for a dance and could be the writing of a fantasy.
Amitiés,
Valéry
Count Basie: I don't worry about virtuosity. I do what I like to do. If I'm a virtuoso, that's great. If not, I'm doing what I like to do.

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Michael
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Re: Milán, Luys - Pavana 2 - Lute

Post by Michael » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:32 am

Valéry, that is great!

This is my favourite Pavana of the six and I play it a lot, but you play it quite a bit faster than I do!

Thank you for sharing this with us and showing me how it should be played (even though I do like to slow it down to make it sound plaintive and sad!). :wink:

:bravo: :merci:
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Re: Milán, Luys - Pavana 2 - Lute

Post by GeoffB » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:23 am

Thank you, Val. I like playing that one too (and, like Michael, much more slowly!) It's nice to see it played by someone who knows what they're doing :wink: .

:bravo:

Geoff
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Valéry Sauvage
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Re: Milán, Luys - Pavana 2 - Lute

Post by Valéry Sauvage » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:53 am

About tempi of dances, what is really interesting is to work with dances (what I've done for 7 years with the group "La Saltarelle"). Of course pavan is a slow dance, noble and grave (as said by Arbeau in his Orchesographie) but spanish pavans are known to be faster pavans than "standard" ones. But I think every one could play it according to his mood.
What I often see (or hear in fact) is galliard played too fast by guitar players (and some lutenists too) as we think gaillard is a fast dance, yes it is, but try to dance it at some tempi I heard, and you'll see if you an follow the pace... Same with almains (for example Lady Hundson's puffe, that is an almain) so often played so fast that it is not possible even to imagine dancing on it.
Sorry for the digression (I'm very concerned by renaissance dances...)
Valéry ;-)
Count Basie: I don't worry about virtuosity. I do what I like to do. If I'm a virtuoso, that's great. If not, I'm doing what I like to do.

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Michael
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Re: Milán, Luys - Pavana 2 - Lute

Post by Michael » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:59 am

Valéry, thanks for explaining a bit more about the tempi. That was interesting to know.
All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.
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serl

Re: Milán, Luys - Pavana 2 - Lute

Post by serl » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:58 pm

Nice one, but too fast compared to other recordings I heard (Segovia's for instance). But maybe it's just my taste, I like it in really slow and almost "non-danceable" tempo :wink:

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Re: Milán, Luys - Pavana 2 - Lute

Post by Valéry Sauvage » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:17 pm

lazy_s wrote:Nice one, but too fast compared to other recordings I heard (Segovia's for instance). But maybe it's just my taste, I like it in really slow and almost "non-danceable" tempo :wink:
As I said before, pavan in spain, renaissance, were danced faster than "standard" pavans in Europe. So I don't think my version is too fast (for my taste... lol)
Compared to other recordings... Segovia is not know to be a specialist of early music (great instrumentist in fact, but many errors in interpretation of early music, and some incongruous harmonisations in Bach works...)
One think is what our ears are used too... for example I'm used to X or Y version of such a piece, (or to my way of playing it...) and when I heard it another way, different, it seems to me to be wrong, but sometimes it is not. I don't say my version here is a reference, but many version of renaissance music played by guitarist 50 years ago are really not reference now, with the knowledge we have of interpretation and technics of early instruments. So we have to change sometimes of idea about thoses pieces, tempis and articulation. Even Bream, making many of us discovering lute music, is now questionnable in his way to play this music (with many romantic ways of playing guitar that are not suitable to Dowland's music...)
;-)
Val
Count Basie: I don't worry about virtuosity. I do what I like to do. If I'm a virtuoso, that's great. If not, I'm doing what I like to do.

serl

Re: Milán, Luys - Pavana 2 - Lute

Post by serl » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:13 pm

Luthval wrote:
lazy_s wrote:Nice one, but too fast compared to other recordings I heard (Segovia's for instance). But maybe it's just my taste, I like it in really slow and almost "non-danceable" tempo :wink:
As I said before, pavan in spain, renaissance, were danced faster than "standard" pavans in Europe. So I don't think my version is too fast (for my taste... lol)
Compared to other recordings... Segovia is not know to be a specialist of early music (great instrumentist in fact, but many errors in interpretation of early music, and some incongruous harmonisations in Bach works...)
One think is what our ears are used too... for example I'm used to X or Y version of such a piece, (or to my way of playing it...) and when I heard it another way, different, it seems to me to be wrong, but sometimes it is not. I don't say my version here is a reference, but many version of renaissance music played by guitarist 50 years ago are really not reference now, with the knowledge we have of interpretation and technics of early instruments. So we have to change sometimes of idea about thoses pieces, tempis and articulation. Even Bream, making many of us discovering lute music, is now questionnable in his way to play this music (with many romantic ways of playing guitar that are not suitable to Dowland's music...)
;-)
Val
Agreed. But still I like "wrong" (i.e. slower) interpretation more than the "right" one. Purely subjective :wink:

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Valéry Sauvage
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Re: Milán, Luys - Pavana 2 - Lute

Post by Valéry Sauvage » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:35 pm

lazy_s wrote: Agreed. But still I like "wrong" (i.e. slower) interpretation more than the "right" one. Purely subjective :wink:
Of course, it is your right ;-)
Val
Count Basie: I don't worry about virtuosity. I do what I like to do. If I'm a virtuoso, that's great. If not, I'm doing what I like to do.

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