Voting for Dxx pieces

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Bertran
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Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:49 pm

I am not an expert! But I have a lot of fun and enjoy while playing CG.

Reading this site, I have found that a lot of members want to have some orientation when playing particular piece; there are a lot of topics and questions about grading. Same thing, I'm not an exception. Before I play some piece I want to have some information about it's difficulties, technique that must be learn etc.

I am not an expert! This days (after D01) I have finish D02 (new-one and ex-one) and record all of the pieces. I must say that, for now, I have to agree with grading system, and I see a difference between D01 and D02. And I am very, very curious about all of the criteria that distinguish every Dxx among each others.

I am not an expert! But I try to write (for myself) every technique tips that I saw and that are included in first two Dxx. Also, for my own fun, I have voting for every element in the pieces (arpeggio, LH, RH, chord, slurs, number of comments within measures, often guitar techniques...) and write this marks on my computer. After, D01 and D02 I have made my own (non-scientific) voting system and rating number for every piece that I have play. It's little crazy, I know.

I am not an expert! But for my point of view I have my (beginners) opinion how much I estimate every piece. After sorting I have a table with score and position for every piece. Once again, these scores are relative and subjective, of course, and just my rating numbers based on my system.

I am not an expert! And what now? I was thinking, maybe this is interesting for someone else on this site. Specifically for those who are want to play Dxx or already finish them. Maybe somebody else do the similar things like me, maybe someone want to know what is my point of view, just make comparation etc. If someone did it something similar, I also I want to make comparation with his list…

Anyway, here is how my jury :D voting (first 11 of D01, first 25 of D02)

Bertran
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Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:08 pm

For now, my opinion about D02 (and D01) is that I have found that all pieces are interesting, lovely on particular way,… and I think that is very usefull for progress to one (to me) to play all of them.

However, I want to say some words about few pieces that are slightly run up, for my opinion, upon others.
  • Jean-Francois Delcamp – Malaguena
    When I start to play this piece I feel that this piece is little harder than any other previous inside (D02 and D01 before). With it's spanish charm and rhythm, alternation pi-pm-… on bass and treble and one quick, demanding passage. Later, I have found another challanges. But, my first thinking was that Mr. JFD are decent man and put this piece to D02 although maybe it deserve to belong to D03.

    Ferdinando Carulli – Rondo, op.241
    As it can be saw on my score table, I think that this piece is most important and complex inside D02 level. And at the same time (for me, of course) most lovely. I love to play this piece very much.

    Johann Sebastian Bach – Menuets BWV 1007
    Beautiful, beatufil,…this is Bach – there is no necessary to say needlesly words. I have never been boring while playing this Menuets and oftenly find something that can be improved. And I must say that I was little suprised and sad when I realize that this Menuets are not included in new edition. I don't understand the reason why?!

    Fernando Sor – Lesson VI, op.60
    Relatively short, but very lovely piece. All piceses from op.60 are charming, this one specially.
So, this is my report after D01 and D02. If someone have any opinion about this, please be so kind and write what you think about D01 and D02 or whatever you want…

I have already started with D03. I hope that I will find new interesting and lovely pieces…

Bertran

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Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:22 pm

Me again... Not expert, as much as you can remember and see. :)
This day I have finished D03, write my notes, record all of the piece, happy to enjoy playing CG.

And once again, I have put my rating numbers for every piece and sort them descending. Here is my (beginner point of) view about difficulty for all of the D03 pieces (see attachment):

In the next post I will write a few words about some pieces…but until that, you can write your opinion about Dxx pieces, what pieces is “turn you on”, or look difficult than others,… please be free and join this topic.

Bertran
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Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:39 pm

As I promise I want to share with you some words about pieces from D03. I was working with D03 pieces every day, I need about 4 months to learn and record all of them.

At the previous post I send my list of difficulties for top first 25 pieces. And as I also said, that is nothing but my subjective list, intention to exchange some opinion with those of you who also go entirely through Dxx edition.

Few words about some of the pieces:
  • Johann Sebastian Bach – Menuets BWV 1007
    At one of the previous post I have wrote about this beuatiful Menuetts and said that I regret cause they are exclude from D02. Now I see a reason why: they are moved from D02 to D03. And I agree with that!

    Gaspar Sainz – (21 pieces)
    When I percieve that I must go through 21 Sanz's pieces (with all that mordents and thrills) I was afraid that I can't be so mentaly patient to do that. But carefully play piece by piece..., and I have finish all of them. Interesting thing, after some pieces I have a better clue about Sanz's pattern and feel much comfortable with Sanz after some time. An now almost miss them :) Pieces that is (for me) more charming than others: Lantururu, Rujero.

    Ferdinando Carulli – Andante, A-major
    This is famous and beuatiful piece. One of the piece that always bring me back to the childhood (together with his Allegretto,p.72). I suggest everybody to play and enjoy this piece (if already didn't).

    Fernando Sor – Lesson XII, op.60
    All of the Sor's op.60 pieces are very lovely and melodic. But with this piece I spend a lot of time. Why? There is no so much hard chords or techniques that I don't see at previous pieces. Nevertheless, main thing that seems hard to me is to connect all that measures in one performance and find a way to bring out the melody that looks very hidden when I practice. Every meassure looks easy, all togehter did not.

    Jose Ferrer y Esteve – Ejercicio no.9
    One of the most charming piece within D03. I don't enjoy while playing Sor's Lesson XII but I spend a lot of the time 'cause I think that piece is very important. But this Jose's piece is very fun, with every practice I try to find what can be improved. Don't jump over it, try, I hope that you will enjoy like me.

    Jean Francois Delcamp – Tango and Malaguena Facil
    As you can see, I put this two pieces at the top of my difficulty list. But, at the same time I must say that this opinion can be very subjective. The reason for that is beacuse both are flamenco pieces and I don't have so much experience with flamenco, specially with rasgueado technique (probably not the only one between CG evergreen beginners like me :) ).
    I have spend a lot of time to find a way how to play all bits with equal volume (!), how to release a tension with fingers, how to hold right hand etc. Someone common with flamenco maybe found that pieces is not so hard. For me, I need a lot of practice. Also, there is flamenco-bass bits, one little faster scales, jump to fast triolas,... – demanding pieces.
Ok, this is my report :) for you.
If you want you can join this topic and write how you percieve D03 pieces.

If you don't – I am already playing and enjying with D04 pieces – and one day... I hope will write a new report. :)

Bertran

Ubik

Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Ubik » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:46 pm

Bertran wrote:It's little crazy, I know.
Just a little, but do keep going! You're soon becoming the authority on Dxx... :mrgreen:

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Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:51 pm

Oh no, I just enjoy, offer my point of view and I am happy if someone find this topic interesting while playing Dxx pieces, want to share his opinion etc.
I don't have a pretensions to be anyone's authority. On this site there is probably a hundred of players with much more knowledge than me.

Bertran

circle1

Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by circle1 » Sat May 01, 2010 1:47 am

By all means keep going. I find it interesting to read your perceptions since you are making your analysis while at that level in your learning process. Sometimes advanced players play through a less advanced piece and say it should be easy. However, they sometimes can't remember what it was like to be learning those techniques for the first time. There are several techniques that seem easy for me now and I forget how much agony it was to learn it years ago. Keep it up!

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Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Sat May 01, 2010 10:01 pm

circle1,

I have tried to analyize every piece, enjoying all the time, improve my playing, knowing that even simple problems seems to be large until we don't find a way to solve it – just like you said.
Thank you very much for you support and for understanding that override border of this topic at your very kindly way. :merci:

Bertran

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Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:08 pm

My journey through the Dxx edition's is at the new milestone :D ; with this month ending I have finished all pieces within D04.
There are a lot of beatuful pieces, I have enjoyed with almost all of them.

Once again, with my begginer's point of view, I send you my list of top 25 pieces sorted by difficulty.

At the next post,... some thoughts about some pieces...

Bertran
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Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:55 pm

Maybe it is not necessary, but I want again to offer my observations about some pieces that I will remember, together with a pleasant hours I have spent with them:
  • Luis Milan – Pavana 1,2,3,5
    I spent a lot of time with this pieces. There is a couple of not easy streching that I must practice. But more of that I try to understand this pieces, learn to bring out a melodies, improve balance and rhythm accuracy. It looks easy but it isn't! If you look at my table you can find that this pieces are at the top of the list.

    John Anthony Logy – Pieces from Suite A-moll.
    Logy is discovery for me! Relatively simple pieces but very interesting. One example (Cappricio) from Suite you can find at this link:
    viewtopic.php?f=48&t=51359

    Ferdinando Carulli – Andantino, {Sonata, op.41}
    Yes, I love Carulli :) but this is not reason why I emphasize this piece. Generally I need a weeks or two every day practice to record a particular piece from D04. But, for this piece I need a two month practice, specially for the second part (!). Interesting, first two measures are very similar to Brazilian national anthem (!!). I don't know does Carulli has any influence to anthem or vice versa?! This record you can find at this link:
    viewtopic.php?f=20&t=52931

    Fernando Sor – Lesson, op.35 No.17 & 22
    All of the Sor's etudes within D04 are important but this two, at the same time, are very famous. So, I think that it is not needlessly to mention again, this two etudes are unavoidable for every CG player.

    Giorgio Signorile – Summer Souvenir
    I must confess that I am not a great fan of the contemporary music. Nevertheless, every epoch has great music examples. This piece, at the end of the D04 has it's own atmosphere, my wife say that she like it and who am I to judge about it,... :) And more often I played, more often I love this piece.

    ...but if someone loooking for short and attractive piece maybe I recommend:
    Napoleon Coste – Baracarolle, op.51 No.1
    Julio S. Sagreras – Maria Luisa, op.19. No.2
... but more of that - there is a lot of very lovely and usefull pieces inside whole D04. Great edition!

Bertran

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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:57 pm

Well, after about 10 months I have finished all of the pieces inside D05.
Everyone that read/remember my first post know :) that I am not an expert, self-learner and that this marks is just my subjective point of view.
I am happy that I have finished another one great book. For D05 this is my sort of top 30 pieces:

Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:40 pm

... and once again I want to share my impressions about D05 with you.

First of all, whole D05 is obviously harder than previous Dxx editions. I have spend full 10 months (1,5h practice per day) to learn all of the pieces! That is almost exactly the same period that I need from D01 to D04 together. When I (during practices) record all of the pieces now I see that it is 2 hours of music. 10 months practices for 2 hour music – but, that is the way how it goes. :)
But, at the same time, I have enjoy a lot. So much well—known pieces, and really nice pieces that I heard for the first time.
  • Luys de Narvaez
    I don't have a knowledge to understand music of the old masters and sometime it is very difficult to me (self-learner) to play that pieces. Also, Mudarra's ''Romanesca'' is probably the hardest piece inside D05 (but I must accent that I have play this piece without capo at V fret what is recommended for renaissance guitar).
    But Narvaez music is something special; his ''Cancion Del Imperador“ or ''Gurdame Las Vacas'' are so settling, graceful,... I am speechless.

    Gaspar Sanz - Pavana
    I learn this piece, and after I think that I know it pretty well I upload my record to this site. After just a few comment I see what I am doing wrong and I appreciate so much your advices. For me (without teacher) it is so important to have a return information.
    Also, Sanz's ''Canarios D-dur'' is so attractive piece, maybe this words seems very strange to someone, but this piece at the same time sound so modern to me !

    Johann Sebastian Bach – Preludio (from Cello Suite BWV 1007) & Menuett Anh.132
    Beautiful Preludio and I am not person that is called to say anything else. But Menuett is a surprise to me, I have never heard it before. Oh, Bach,...

    Sor, Carcassi, Aguado,...
    Sometime, when I must learn pieces by this composers (also Carulli and Giuliani (they are not at D05)) I think to myself: oh no, not he again – he is so,... classical! And it is - at full meaning. I have always found something interesting at their pieces, within every etudes.
    Sor's Etude op.35 No.08 or Carcassi's Etude op.60 No.16 are unavoidable. Like many others,...

    Latin America pieces
    Music that I prefer. It is attractive, melodic, difficult to play but (when learned) everybody wants to listen.
    Most famous and popular is Pernambuco's El Sonido De Los Carillanos.
    But there is a lot of other great pieces from Manjon, Barrios, de Abreu,... for everyone's taste at D05.
But that is not all! So much other wonderful piece that I must suggest and recomend:
Napoleon Coste - Etude XXIV
Francisco Tarrega - Lagrima
Jean-Francois Delcamp - Tango Milonga
Pierre Tremblay - Contine

So, my friend, sorry to bother you,... but I must open my soul and share my feelings with you. :discussion:
Bertran

Autumn Breeze

Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Autumn Breeze » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:12 pm

This is a really cool idea! Thank you very much for the rating (it helps me to choose which piece to play as I don't have enought time to play them all) and its a pleasure reading your comments/opinions :)

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Bertran
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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by Bertran » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:54 pm

Autumn Breeze,

Thank you for your comment. I am very happy if I can help you at any way to choose a nice piece among thousand and thousand,...
Dxx is really great edition but large at the same time. Maybe not everyone play all of the pieces etc., maybe my opinions can help one to find what he looking for.
I hope that you will enjoy with pieces that I suggest,... and one day upload something ;)

___________________________________________________________________________

I have a one forebearing comment about my "system" at one different topic so I want share a few thoughts with you:
- about "system"
- about this topic
- about Dxx edition

About my "system":

As I said, it is not scientific, not wisdom, I think that everyone can make a system of his own. What I do - just recount all of the annotation + all of the comment from my note-book during learning a piece. I do it for every technique - stopping, arrpegio, ligado, LH, RH, scale,..., special elements,...bla, bla,... and put a mark for every element. After that, I summarize all marks and get final TOTAL that you can see at my table.
The purpose of this rating is to have a clear idea how much difficult is piece if I try to measure it (not only by my sense of difficulty). Now, I must say that my inner sense most of the time correspond with TOTAL! But total give me exact "numbers" and sence doesn't.
But, once again, what is valid for me maybe it is not for you; I just offer you a my experience with Dxx level - that's all.

About this topic:

So, this is a reason why I have open up this topic. To give you my insights and access, to maybe help someone and to hear your thoughts. This is not a topic about contents of edition, transcription etc,...rather about pieces inside. Also, it is not necessary to play all of the pieces (like I do) to post a topic - you can write whatever you think about difficulty and beauty of the Dxx pieces.
For example you can see that Mudarra's Romanesca is (for me) most difficult piece at D05 (maybe it even belongs to D06?!). I can exactly indicate why. But I will be very curios if someone find some other piece that is more difficult (for him).

About Dxx edition:
This is not a topic only about difficulty and insights. Everyone of us, looking for a nice piece.
So I always (after the post with table attached to it) send one more post about some particular pieces.
Also, what I specially like at Dxx editions is that cover almost every era: early period, baroque, classic, contemporary and all of the pieces are almost at the same level inside one book. This is very practical for development.
Personally, I prefer Latin America pieces but however I don't want to sunk down at LA and have not opportunity to enjoy with other composers and discover new one. It is much easier when someone prepare it for you.

And after all, when I have finish one book I am happy to spread oneself and report you :)
I am not profesional CG player, CG is my hobby, this topic is maybe look like a game but I like to think that it is a serious game :)

Bertran

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Re: Voting for Dxx pieces

Post by lagartija » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:20 pm

So does that mean that you simply count all the marks you have made on the page (to remind you to do something) to come to the total in your rating? I know I make a lot of marks on my scores... sometimes right hand finger notations, sometimes left hand fingering, sometimes position number or string number indicating where I want to play a passage. After learning the piece though, I could erase half of the notations that I've made on the page. I just needed them while learning the piece. So if I kept a count, it would change significantly after the piece was learned. Is this the same for you? If so, then you are judging how hard the piece is by how many things you must note on the score as you are learning it? Does this change as your knowledge of music has grown? For example: If you were now to start a new piece in the D02 level, and since you have reached D05, some of the things that you would have had to note on your score when you were originally learning pieces in D02 would now be obvious to you and you wouldn't have to note them in this new piece.
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