which is better, dmin or amin version of Bachs lute BWV997?

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Topics archived from Public Space and its subforums after a long period of inactivity, or redundant for some other reason. This section is read-only.

which is better, dmin or amin version of Bachs lute BWV997?

Post by mike » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:27 am

I just recently downloaded a version of the Lute suite that was originally in Cminor. I have heard Julian Bream and Manuel Barreocos both do it in A minor. Now I have found a version in D minor from here http://www.*** Site blocked for copyright reasons ***.ru/ie_b.htm. Does anyone have an opinion on these. My take is that whoever translated the d minor version was trying to be closer to the actual C minor than A minor is, not much though only a half step. Also the 6th string is tuned to D so there are lower notes possible than in the A minor version. If anyone gets a chance maybe you can look at it too from the above mentioned website. Unfortunately the connection to the above is a little slow so you have to be patient when downloading from them. Its labled as Bach lute suite BWV 997


Post by hav » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:58 am

Hey Mike - I think every recording I've heard was the Am -- but the Dm looks neat as well -- and my ear likes things a litle higher pitched I think.

For a chuckle (and some idea, maybe) try this... go to the dir where I have the various formats of my last pass at the 997 sarabande...


...right click and save a local copy of the .MOV file to your computer. If you play it back with the quicktim player on your local machine, you can click and hold the FF button on the player and hear it an octave higher (and faster -- more "The Chipmunks Do Bach" sort of stuff)

If you don't have quicktime, there's a link to where you can download a free copy of the quicktime player on the main "junk" page.

The octave is, of course, higher but I guess the Dm would be close to just between the normal speed and FF speed of the Am version (in pitch I mean) - yes?

OH - also - my score for the 997 Sarabande DOES, in fact, note lower octave for much of the bass line. I guess Dm makes having the lower bass more possible on 6 string --- I guess maybe 8 or 10 strings can handle the extra octave basses ok ??


Post by freebooter » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:13 pm

thanks for the link :)


Post by Azalais » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:16 pm

I've been fiddle around with the BWV997 gigue and double (also the Weiss gigue from the Dresden son.3 in Fmaj) I use TablEdit and can transpose them up and down and see which key creates the maximum number of open strings and the fewest number of awkward positions... with or without dropped D tuning. I also check to see which key will work best if I play it on a baroque guitar, which has five courses but the three bass strings can be an octave apart... If things start to look interesting, I go back to cakewalk and actually configure all 11 strings to sound at the correct pitch (with the low bordons and the extra higher octaves)... If I crush all of those notes back down to six strings, it makes for some odd chords..., but sounds really beautiful. Using tablature does make these experiments easier to try!

As for manipulation other peoples recordings... I often slow down CD tracks to listen closely to ornamentation, etc... at half speed they are exactly an octave lower... (which makes a very nice theorbo effect)... With my audio editing SW (Goldwave) I can also tweak the speed and/or pitch of a piece to match a particular tuning or frequency. Sometimes, with a few months of practice, I can even play along :) In most cases, I think they sound better too slow than too fast...


Post by hav » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:31 pm

Hay Az! - yes -- I think I like the faster.higher because I seem better able to hear the bass line(s) -- 6 of one - half dozen of another - I guess

One of the most often complaints I get is that I sometimes don't kill strings as written --- I find that open strings give me fits!!! I have a heck of a time killing them unless they fall nicely under my thumb at a time when my thumb is free to kill them :D , for example, at the end of measure 26 and beginning of 27, the bass has an A followed by a D - I should probably fret the A (but I usually don't :) - and I don't usually killl it --- I DO kill the D and SOMETIMES manage to lean my thumb into the A when killing the D - but this often causes a nasty buzz.

'course, odd fingerings can also be a headache!! :D

The double in 997 is nice!! I haven't started on it (I still need to go rework the 1002 double or else I should probably take down the vid of it :D -- but Chris Broderick has a nice vid of (partial) 997 double here...


ha ha ha - as an aside: he also has a two handed tapping example - worth a look as a diversion anyway...



Post by hav » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:50 am

Hey Az - commenting on my trouble killing open strings made me try a pass at the bwv 999 prelude just to see how the stops were doing.

Better than earlier versions (which had NO stops ha ha ha) but the vid is terribly noisy and my clarity stinks - but I was mostly interested to see if I was killing the basses any better ----- think I'm a bit too quick on these now -- ha ha ha ha ha ha -- feast or famine I guess :-D

I'll probably dink around with the piece for a day or two and make a new vid - HOPEFULLY improve the clarity that I seem to have lost either by not playing this for a while or by trying to up the speed a bit - whatever ---

anyway - the newest bwv 999 prelude from 8-24-05 at http://www.hav.com/junk/ is the one -- not a big vid - only about 1:20 or so.

If you have 2 minutes - take a look and let me know what you think (about the killing - not the piece in general 'cause I already know what a lousy overall it is :D

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