What are the best mics to record CG?

Creating a home studio for recording the classical guitar. Equipment, software and recording techniques. Amplification for live performance.
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rojarosguitar
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by rojarosguitar » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:08 pm

This is one of those simple questions for which there are no simple answers. Almost any mic (of satisfying quality) can be the best mic in a good sounding room with an excellent preamp matching well the mic, well positioned by an experiences recordist. It also depends on what you're after: neutral reproduction? - take DPA or Shoepps. Some beautiful coloration: AKG C12 (listen to what Norbert Kraft does with them for Naxos) ... or some vitage Telefunken tube mics. My brother, who is a recording guy, loves the Peluso take on them.

We are talking here about the creme de la creme. Used properly you can have absolutely great recordings with Rode NT 1A matched pair. For 40 times less money than for a pair of AKG C12. There is no simple scale from bad to good to best ...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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englishguitarist

Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by englishguitarist » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:18 pm

Slightly OT, but hopefully interesting:

I was interested to read about Norbert Kraft using C12s, Rojaro. Really interesting. I love the sound of those Naxos recordings. I found this video showing him in action. I assume the C12VRs are set to omni?

http://vimeo.com/21498274

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Vlad Kosulin
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by Vlad Kosulin » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:15 am

Thanks for the link. It is always a joy to watch the new sound being born.
Regards,
Vlad
(still testing various strings with 2006 Sebastian Stenzel and Olinda OC-300)

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rojarosguitar
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:49 am

englishguitarist wrote:Slightly OT, but hopefully interesting:

I was interested to read about Norbert Kraft using C12s, Rojaro. Really interesting. I love the sound of those Naxos recordings. I found this video showing him in action. I assume the C12VRs are set to omni?

http://vimeo.com/21498274
It is not being said, but quite likely. There would be no reason to go to great length to find a fantastic sounding room and then not to use the overall sound ... I've read somewhere that his equipment is customized (means modified).
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents
My homepage is: https://www.live-arts.de

jkircoff

Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by jkircoff » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:41 pm

I have a Blue Bluebird condenser mic that hooks up to a Mbox2 with Pro Tools 8 LE. I've recorded myself a couple of times and have yet to find the "right" spot to place the mic to get the best sound, but from what I've recorded I've been very impressed with the mic. Keep in mind I am totally new to recording so keep that in mind if you're looking for a more informed opinion!

jkircoff

Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by jkircoff » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:44 pm

rojarosguitar wrote:We are talking here about the creme de la creme. Used properly you can have absolutely great recordings with Rode NT 1A matched pair. For 40 times less money than for a pair of AKG C12. There is no simple scale from bad to good to best ...
I'm looking to pick up a second mic so I can record in stereo. In your opinion, is having a matched pair of mics important, is it more a matter of opinion, does it depend on mic placement, etc?

Thanks! : )

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rojarosguitar
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:00 pm

jkircoff wrote:
I'm looking to pick up a second mic so I can record in stereo. In your opinion, is having a matched pair of mics important, is it more a matter of opinion, does it depend on mic placement, etc?

Thanks! : )
It strongly depends on the recording technique you are intending to use. For coincident techniques a matched cardioid pair is very advicable, if the localization of the sound source is to be stable.
With near coincident techniques, and the more, with spaced techniques (please google these terms, there are many explanations on the internet), matching might be not so important, but for a good stereo imaging identically sounding mics are thought to be required.

But recording a solo guitar isn't necessary that much stereo or room oriented as a whole enesmble. One can do a lot with two different mics too. But quite usable mics are so cheap nowadays (see Rode NT-1) . Out of habit I'd always start out with a pair of identical mics :wink:

best wishes
Robert
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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Brian Brock
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by Brian Brock » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:58 pm

I like a large diaphragm matched pair pointing at the neck joint and the bridge, at a distance from the guitar determined by the room and intention, and a distance from each other and angle determined by phase relationships and intention.

Specifically I have recently found good results from a pair of Gefell UMT70S a few feet from the guitar, pretty much directly in front of the neck joint and bridge (perhaps a few inches wider), using a good mic preamp, decent converter, and editing / mixing in good software.

The difficulty lies almost entirely in mic placement. In my view, the guitar has inherent phase issues, so the goal is less to maintain phase as to use mic placement to focus the sound. The room itself is only as good as the choices you make in the room - where to put the instrument being number one.

A mid side pair can be interesting and the mics need not be matched, but mostly I find it is pretty limited, and if it doesn't work in the context there's a lot less you can do to adjust either before or after recording.

an example:
viewtopic.php?f=116&t=65257

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rojarosguitar
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:19 pm

Brian Brock wrote:...Specifically I have recently found good results from a pair of Gefell UMT70S ...
Well, Brian, Microtech-Gefell belongs to finest breeds of German microphones (they used to be the Eastern German branch of Neumann, before the two Germanys united), so if there are good microphones out there, then these ... and also not that cheap either ...!
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents
My homepage is: https://www.live-arts.de

Brian Brock
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by Brian Brock » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:09 pm

yeah the umt70s is a good mic, I understand that it's roughly similar to a Neumann u87, and about half the price of one (though they have both gotten more expensive...). There's nothing wrong with it, though it is a bit crisp sounding sometimes, in my experience. And their history is interesting.

I actually have been very excited about the ADK TL recently, which is also a transformerless, multipattern, large-diaphragm, condenser microphone. Any of these kind of mics, such as an Audo-technica 4050 or an AKG 414, is super useful - actually I suspect the ADK TL is a bit of a sleeper, they don't seem to have very good distribution (maybe discontinued? I can't understand the ADK website). A pair of ADK TLs could do a great job recording any classical music, I think.

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ElectricLute
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by ElectricLute » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:34 pm

Thanks Englishguitarist for sharing that wonderful video.

Cheers
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1975 Tamura
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John Oster

Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by John Oster » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:37 pm

In my experience, Schoeps are the best for guitar. I think they sell for about $2000-2500 each these days.

atza

Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by atza » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:08 am

Judging by the videos and audios on your site you are already making very good sound with the equipment you have. Maybe you should try some post production techniques to make it sound even better. Like a bit of reverberation or compression. Also its worth trying to put mic a bit closer to the guitar like 15 cm instead of 25 cm

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attila57
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by attila57 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:40 pm

Hello Guys,

I wonder if I should use a pair of tubes or FETs. Any idea? :?:

Attila
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rojarosguitar
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Re: What are the best mics to record CG?

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:20 pm

attila57 wrote:Hello Guys,

I wonder if I should use a pair of tubes or FETs. Any idea? :?:

Attila
As somebody who wants to get the sound of a guitar recorded well I wouldn't worry too much about the electronic principles that are used inside the mics (as little as I worry about what kind of electronics they use in my computer as long as it does what it is supposed to do);
but there a few factors that might of prime importance:

The mic must be
- quiet (low self noise). This is one of those parameters that can't be too good!
- fast (have a quick response to all transients - that rules most of the dynamic mics out, apart from ribbons). Quite important to catch the specifics of the instrument you are recording.
- working well with the usual preamps (that rules some of the vintage exotic ones needing special power supplies or connectors, at least for nonprofessionals)
- sounding well (this is certainly a subjective judgement)

Personally I don't believe in the necessity of flat frequency response, because that is something that is blurred under real recording conditions quite a bit, but one has to understand the kind of colourations that every mic inevitably imparts in its effect to the guitar sound (e.g. the bass boost through proximity effect that is more prominent in some mics and less in others).

So instead of asking yourself what sits inside the mic electronics it is more important to know how a mic actually sounds with your guitar. And don't forget, the preamp does it's own part in what sound ends up on your recording.

I myself came to love ribbon mics more and more for classical guitar, and here the preamp is even more crucial than else, because one needs a lot of very, very clean gain and a suitable impedance for ribbons. And the best: I don't need to worry about whether they are FET or Tube, because they don't have any active electronics at all (at least the traditionally built ones).
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents
My homepage is: https://www.live-arts.de

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