Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

A "classroom" environment for exchanging Technical Questions & Answers, How-To's, music theory concepts, etc.
User avatar
LarryShone
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Darlington, England

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by LarryShone » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:13 pm

Is the 10,000 hours of practice concept only really relevant to becoming a professional player, performing on stage? What if you never intend playing to others but just for your own pleasure? Surely the bar can be set lower.
The biggest hurdle for me is reading music. Even now at 51 it just doesn't 'go in'. I suppose if I really knuckled down I could get to grips with it but well, life gets in the way.
I was thinking of signing up for the lessons, starting at the beginning, but I feel I might be too late...
Surround yourself with people dear James, they are easier to fight for than principles.
José Ferrer Estudiante 5208A
Fender DG 5 acoustic
Tanglewood DBLT SFCE electro-acoustic
Tanglewood TU 13M concert ukulele
Brunswick Baritone ukulele
Deacon Mandolin

User avatar
Rick Beauregard
Student tutor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:23 am
Location: Blaine, WA

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Rick Beauregard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:28 pm

LarryShone wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:13 pm
, but I feel I might be too late...
#1. No. Not too late. When you get to year 8 of the lessons, you’ll be 59. If you don’t do the lessons, you’ll still be 59. So, do or don’t do.

#2. As many have said on this thread, it’s about the journey, not the destination. I personally find having goals helps motivate me to continue every day. I’m in favor of setting a goal then letting go of the final outcome and just putting one foot in front of the other. So it’s not about becoming a professional for me. It’s just about being as good as I can be. I’m sure there’ll be lots of roadblocks and hurdles to come. But today I have to practice.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

User avatar
LarryShone
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Darlington, England

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by LarryShone » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:42 pm

Well I meant too late as the lessons began on September the 5th, but thats it, I'm going to sign up for the lessons. I hope I can practice every day, even if it's just 30 minutes.
Surround yourself with people dear James, they are easier to fight for than principles.
José Ferrer Estudiante 5208A
Fender DG 5 acoustic
Tanglewood DBLT SFCE electro-acoustic
Tanglewood TU 13M concert ukulele
Brunswick Baritone ukulele
Deacon Mandolin

User avatar
Rick Beauregard
Student tutor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:23 am
Location: Blaine, WA

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Rick Beauregard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 pm

LarryShone wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:42 pm
Well I meant too late as the lessons began on September the 5th, but thats it, I'm going to sign up for the lessons. I hope I can practice every day, even if it's just 30 minutes.
Ha ha. No the lessons just started. And you are free to work at your own pace and start and stop at will. The only real requirement is to submit your videos for 7 of the 10 lessons before qualifying for the final exam and submitting the final on time. But only if you want to receive a certificate which is completely optional. Auditing is allowed. I actually started my first year in April and crammed.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

User avatar
LarryShone
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Darlington, England

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by LarryShone » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:50 pm

Rick Beauregard wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 pm
LarryShone wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:42 pm
Well I meant too late as the lessons began on September the 5th, but thats it, I'm going to sign up for the lessons. I hope I can practice every day, even if it's just 30 minutes.
Ha ha. No the lessons just started. And you are free to work at your own pace and start and stop at will. The only real requirement is to submit your videos for 7 of the 10 lessons before qualifying for the final exam and submitting the final on time. But only if you want to receive a certificate which is completely optional. Auditing is allowed. I actually started my first year in April and crammed.
I posted a registration request in the Conditions of Participating thread. How many lessons are in D01?
Surround yourself with people dear James, they are easier to fight for than principles.
José Ferrer Estudiante 5208A
Fender DG 5 acoustic
Tanglewood DBLT SFCE electro-acoustic
Tanglewood TU 13M concert ukulele
Brunswick Baritone ukulele
Deacon Mandolin

User avatar
Rick Beauregard
Student tutor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:23 am
Location: Blaine, WA

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Rick Beauregard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:42 pm

LarryShone wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:50 pm
Rick Beauregard wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 pm
LarryShone wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:42 pm
Well I meant too late as the lessons began on September the 5th, but thats it, I'm going to sign up for the lessons. I hope I can practice every day, even if it's just 30 minutes.
Ha ha. No the lessons just started. And you are free to work at your own pace and start and stop at will. The only real requirement is to submit your videos for 7 of the 10 lessons before qualifying for the final exam and submitting the final on time. But only if you want to receive a certificate which is completely optional. Auditing is allowed. I actually started my first year in April and crammed.
I posted a registration request in the Conditions of Participating thread. How many lessons are in D01?
10 lessons. But 8 come before exam time so you only get to skip 1. The last 2 come in May and June after the final is submitted. Lessons resume again in September.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

User avatar
LarryShone
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Darlington, England

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by LarryShone » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:45 pm

Sorry to be a nag but what does the exam involve?
Surround yourself with people dear James, they are easier to fight for than principles.
José Ferrer Estudiante 5208A
Fender DG 5 acoustic
Tanglewood DBLT SFCE electro-acoustic
Tanglewood TU 13M concert ukulele
Brunswick Baritone ukulele
Deacon Mandolin

User avatar
Rick Beauregard
Student tutor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:23 am
Location: Blaine, WA

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Rick Beauregard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:17 pm

LarryShone wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:45 pm
Sorry to be a nag but what does the exam involve?
A piece will be assigned for everyone to record and submit. In the past it has been a piece taken from one of the previous lessons. But in D06 at least this year, it was a completely new piece. You have one month to prepare and submit it. There are three or four teachers who listen to all the submissions and grade the pieces. There is no other feedback given. Those who pass get a certificate. You have to pay attention to the deadline for submittal because it is based on French time zone. And make sure your mod recognizes you as qualified to sit for exam, in other words he or she agrees with what you have submitted at least 7 lessons. Sometimes there are surprises: you thought you did them all but somehow one was lost or some technical glitch.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

User avatar
Rick Beauregard
Student tutor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:23 am
Location: Blaine, WA

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Rick Beauregard » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:25 pm

This free podcast is a good short explanation and critique of the “10,000 hour rule”.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the ... 0394878373
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

Willie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:47 pm

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Willie » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:03 pm

Hello Rick and All

I joined this forum yesterday. This is a fascinating topic and relevant to me as well. In fact it was inspiring to find others in a similar situation to my own. I received my BA in Classical Guitar performance in 1982. My view of my skills was critical; owing to performance anxiety I decided I was more likely to earn a living pursuing a career other than playing CG. I put away my guitar for the better part of 35 years. Let me assure you picking it up again is not like riding a bicycle.

I picked up my guitar 4 years ago to accompany my wife performing 'Mary Did You Know' in a Christmas program and haven't stopped practicing since. I am 65 and find I have the same passion and love for the guitar as I had as undergraduate (and really since the first time I heard the Beatles as a twelve year old); however I have maturity and life skills I didn't have then. Being semi-retired I also have a less compressed schedule to accommodate practicing. It has made as world of difference.

Some observations, FWIW. 10,000 hours is an admirable goal the un-predicable nature of aging not withstanding.

My experience with 'trigger finger' is that only rest would heal it. Mine was able to heal on its own over time (several months) when I reduced my practice time to about an hour a day.

My wife reminds/encourages me that I need a teacher, even with my experience and (or especially) at my age. A teacher provides structure, accountability and perspective from the other side of the guitar; most importantly they hear the music differently than than the student. A very smart person said "When performance is measured, performance improves. When performance is measured and reported back, the rate of improvement accelerates".

Willie
1974 Hernandis; Brazilian Rosewood and Spanish Pine
Takemine TC132SC

User avatar
Eberhard Mueller
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:58 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Eberhard Mueller » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:52 pm

Willie wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:03 pm
Hello Rick and All
...
I put away my guitar for the better part of 35 years. Let me assure you picking it up again is not like riding a bicycle.

I picked up my guitar 4 years ago to accompany my wife performing 'Mary Did You Know' in a Christmas program and haven't stopped practicing since. I am 65 and find I have the same passion and love for the guitar as I had as undergraduate...

Willie
Best of luck with finding the right teacher! 65 years is still quite young and the "bicycle" will hum along just fine, (given some compromise for age and health.) Certainly age bestows benefits of maturity, but other faculties have declined. Therefore, I'd agree hopping onto a bicycle might well be easier but not nearly as rewarding as making music! :)
Neil Douglas 2001 (German Spruce / German Maple)
Neil Douglas 1992 (Engelmann Spruce / Brazilian Rosewood)
La Patrie Motif
Cordoba Mini M
Godin 5th Avenue

User avatar
Rick Beauregard
Student tutor
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:23 am
Location: Blaine, WA

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Rick Beauregard » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:52 am

Welcome to Delcamp and to the quest, Willie. I hope you get your chops back quick and start sharing some music. I’m just not up for getting a teacher. But, unlike when we all first started, the internet has some amazing resources for learning anything. Fly fishing, fixing household appliances, woodworking even guitar making, you name it. Check out the lessons on Delcamp. They provide at least some of the criteria you mention, if not professional live feedback, but feedback from peers, of whom some are quite accomplished.

Having said that, I am a little stopped in my tracks in the first lesson of D07 (you have to get on the Spanish forum for that). The Bach prelude 998 is the piece and I’m having trouble getting it up to speed while musical and legato. And I’m getting tired of the piece, or more accurately since I never get sick of Bach, I’m getting sick of me playing it poorly.

O well. I’ll keep plugging. Lesson 2 looks more doable for me.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

User avatar
LarryShone
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Darlington, England

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by LarryShone » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:48 am

I wonder how many hours it is estimated to be able to read music proficiently. I would be more than happy achieving just that.
Surround yourself with people dear James, they are easier to fight for than principles.
José Ferrer Estudiante 5208A
Fender DG 5 acoustic
Tanglewood DBLT SFCE electro-acoustic
Tanglewood TU 13M concert ukulele
Brunswick Baritone ukulele
Deacon Mandolin

User avatar
Christopher Langley
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 995
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:59 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by Christopher Langley » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:49 pm

LarryShone wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:48 am
I wonder how many hours it is estimated to be able to read music proficiently. I would be more than happy achieving just that.
Hear me out... It will come with time, or not. Depends on the person. Either way.. Keep working on your playing. I find it impossible to not memorize short pieces. I also cheat by writing down the names of notes under sheet music while learning it.

Basically.. I'm saying why focus on the area where you struggle? It's great to sight read.. But it's a skill unto itself and is it really necessary for what we are trying to do? Debatable.

From my point of view sight reading is really only for orchestra members who have to learn pieces stupid fast.
I would like to be able to sight read, but I'm more worried about playing.

At first I thought my reading was going to hold me back, but so far it's definitely my fingers. I don't even look at the music while playing. I watch my left hand.
Cordoba CP110
https://youtu.be/AJsinZ8LLhE

User avatar
LarryShone
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Darlington, England

Re: Can an Old Guy make it to 10,000 Hours? A rhetorical question

Post by LarryShone » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:10 pm

I'm not referring to sight reading, I just mean reading music in general. You see I never learned when I was younger, I grew up with a natural ability to play a piece on a keyboard instrument by ear, at least the right hand melody anyway. Give me a tune and I will play it. But give me the tune as sheet music and I will struggle to translate it into music.
Surround yourself with people dear James, they are easier to fight for than principles.
José Ferrer Estudiante 5208A
Fender DG 5 acoustic
Tanglewood DBLT SFCE electro-acoustic
Tanglewood TU 13M concert ukulele
Brunswick Baritone ukulele
Deacon Mandolin

Return to “Classical Guitar Classes”