Hi Robert, interesting how we perceive music in different ways. I guess I am very sensitive to pitch. On pieces I know well, I can usually hear any deviation in pitch from what I am used to instantly.robert e wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:58 pm(......................)
I did misunderstand you, Steve. I was so focused on dynamics that the change of one note slipped by me. If you're talking about Measure 13, I've now seen two editions with the latter, while Stover's apparently has the former. I don't have access to Stover's book--maybe it has an editorial note. I wouldn't be surprised if Barrios wrote it one way and played it another way, or several other ways.
The same question was asked in an older thread and unanswered, but a propos our OP, there's much there on practicing tremolo so here's that link: https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... hp?t=41185
Why on earth do you say that Julian?Julian Ward wrote:Barrios wrote almost nothing down.
La Catedral Julian? That wasn't me - haven't read the whole thread and no time to do so right now so don't know who posted what.Julian Ward wrote:Hi Mark I was under the impression that most of these manuscripts were indeed derived from transcriptions from his recordings. (As you say above for example with La Catedral and Stover etc..)
Because, as is very well known, Barrios sometimes made changes to his pieces - perhaps a different musical idea, or simply judicious editing in order to fit the old "78" recording format ... maybe even the odd mistake. Most of the versions of La Catedral that I know of have small differencesJulian Ward wrote:If we have these manuscripts why are we talking about transcriptions of recordings?
Well, I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the sources Julian but it's an easy enough subject to research these days if you have the time and inclination - I'm very probably out of date myself but I'm pretty certain that you'll want to revise your "wrote almost nothing down".Julian Ward wrote: I would be genuinely interested to see which of his pieces he actually wrote down himself as I have always been under the impression (admittedly from listening to others) that there is precious little.
Interesting indeed. I may have a relatively high tolerance for variation coming from a blues-rock-jazz background. Likewise for the idea of multiple arrangements floating around, especially knowing that Barrios was in the habit of improvising on and revising his compositions. In fact I happen to be weighing a few versions of La Catedral at the moment (Mr. Benites' being one of them).
You've got a point. Barrios didn't like writing manuscripts. Perhaps even he didn't even write most of his music (which is a lot if we believe he wrote upwards of 300 pieces). But there are many surviving manuscripts of his which demonstrate incredibly clean handwriting. Such as Julia Florida! In reading Six Silver Moonbeams by Rico Stover, it appears that Barrios was reluctant to transcribe his music but his patron and friend Martín Borda y Pagola encouraged him to do so.Julian Ward wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:02 amHi Mark I was under the impression that most of these manuscripts were indeed derived from transcriptions from his recordings. (As you say above for example with La Catedral and Stover etc..)
Of these 80 manuscripts - are we certain they were written by Barrios? If we have these manuscripts why are we talking about transcriptions of recordings? I would be genuinely interested to see which of his pieces he actually wrote down himself as I have always been under the impression (admittedly from listening to others) that there is precious little.
Whoww thanks for all the trouble you went to here Mark.The research you have done is most helpful in understanding Barrios .The other inputs in this debate are of course also most helpful in this regard.Great stuffMark Clifton-Gaultier wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:10 pmWhy on earth do you say that Julian?Julian Ward wrote:Barrios wrote almost nothing down.
We have around 80 works in manuscript form - several in two (or even three) versions. Further, the early memorial edition put together by his friend Romeo di Giorgio included 21 items which were most likely derived from written copies. Then there are the individually published items.
Given that Barrios' complete oeuvre numbers only around a 100 pieces I'd say that he wrote down rather alot.
Un Sueño en la Floresta
Barrios composed this work as early as 1918 naming it Souvenir d'un Réve which remained the title until c.1930. He recorded it in 1928. Assuming that I have the correct passage, Giorgio gives the C:
There is some consensus, both Chris Dumigan's and Stover's revised transcriptions of the 1928 recording give:
Of the several versions that I have only Benites offers:
This looks to me like a simple copying error (I am assuming that Benites referenced the Giorgio edition - note the enharmonic spelling and final chord).
During the late 1970s a renewed interest in Barrios became apparent, shortly after which the collections of Benites and Stover served to satisfy the hunger for scores - probably in about equal number which would explain why quite a few players ended up playing the third A.
Some of the rhythmic differences we hear in the introduction (e.g. m.4) are also derived from the Giorgio collection (hence Benites) - nothing to do with artistic interpretation, simply reading a different score.
There are also around 30-40 other measures with small differences which occur in both the Giorgio and the El Salvador ms. I don't have the time to check these against the Benites but suspect that there will be a match if anyone care to follow up.
Thanks for your response! Yes, I can interpret tremolo and I can get the slurs in them too. It's just my tremolo is so quiet due to the lack of room there is on the B string. But I recently learned to "dig into" the guitar instead of just pulling upward. My right left hand position is also improving since I have an instructor now.Eliseo wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 3:46 pmI have read everything that Guitarist_le is advised and all the tips seem good to me. But I think Guitarist_le asks "when he can master the Tremolo in a perfect way".
In my own opinion, as you tell us, you can interpret "Recuerdos de la Alhambra", then where is the problem?
If not, it is that I have not understood what you are asking or what you are referring to.
Having RDLA under my belt for several years(nice piece but i feel that I need other "long" tremolo pieces), I just started studying Campanas finding it very interesting,even the simple parts sound incredible in the hands of talented players (ie. Scott Tennant). On the other hand I am glad I play a short scale instrument otherwise my hands could not handle Campanas 1sts bars