D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

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The classical guitar lessons are free. They are aimed at the isolated amateur who does not have access to a teacher. To join the class, apply for registration into the students group.

PDF, MP3, Vidéos, Lessons : Level D01 - Level D02 - Level D03 - Level D04 - Level D05 - Level D06 - Level D07 - Level D08 - Level D09 - Level D10 - Level D11 - Level D12.
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Jean-François Delcamp
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D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:58 am

Hello everyone,
Please start by downloading the latest version of volume D03.
If you are new to the course, please read this message to familiarize yourself with the conditions for participating in the lessons. You should also read the first message in lesson 1, where you will find advice on how to make the most of your study time and on the methods of practising that I recommend.


Today, we're going to work on a series of exercises.
- page 88, numbers 10, 11, 12 - Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) GAMMES - SCALE - SCALES – ESCALAS
When changes of position are needed, you will be using the "position shift" technique. Position I is the left hand position where the index finger (1) is placed behind the 1st fret, position V is the hand position where the index (1) is placed behind the fifth fret, etc. The position shift involves moving the left hand along the neck, from position to position, from fret to fret. In the scales we're looking at today, notice that my first finger never leaves the first string, I use it as a guide for my hand. Position shifts are shown by oblique lines linking two fingering indications given for the same finger.
The following video corresponds to bars 5 to 9 of the scale of F major, number 10 on page 88. In this video example, I am playing slowly to make it easier for you to see my first finger sliding from position I to position V, then from position V to position X. In the descending scale, notice that I do the same thing in reverse. When I return from position X to position V, my first finger slides from one position to the other without ever leaving the string.

The following videos are for numbers 10, 11 and 12 on page 88. Concentrate your practice on the passages highlighted in yellow, and do your best to perfect the position shift technique.





- Page 94, number 30, bar 2. Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) LIAISONS - LEGATURE - SLURS – LIGADOS
We have already worked on the rest stroke (apoyando) with the fingers of the right hand. Now we are going to work on doing a rest stroke with the fingers of the left hand. That is the best way to learn how to execute descending slurs. In number 30, bar 2, the fingers of the left hand execute the slurs with the help of the rest stroke. The fingers 4, 3, 2 and then 1 pluck the second string then finish their move by coming up against the first string. Place the left hand fingers vertically in relation to the fingerboard, that's the right position to play slurs.




Finally, we'll look at 4 pieces, pages 11, 12, 34, 35 and 56.
- page 11 ANONYME (ca. 1600) GREENSLEEVES
In this piece, take care to hold the bass notes for their full duration, especially the C and G basses. In bars 16 and 24, as soon as you get to the second beat you can prepare the fourth finger which will be used for the top G of the following chord. You can see in the piece the Siciliana rhythm (dotted quaver, semiquaver, quaver, or dotted eighth note, sixteenth note, eighth note). The piece consists of three sections, the third section being identical to the first, so it has an A-B-A structure, also called ternary form.



- page 12 ANONYME MARO PONTKALLEG
This piece consists of three sections, the third section being identical to the first, so it has an A-A-B-B-A'-A' structure, also called ternary form.
From bar 25 onwards, arpeggiate your chords slowly from bass to treble, organizing the rhythm in such a way that you finish the arpeggio with the top note on the beat.



- pages 34-35 TURLOUGH O'CAROLAN (1670-1738) BRIAN BORU'S MARCH
This piece consists of three sections, the third section being identical to the first, so it has an A-B-B-A structure, also called ternary form. You can see in the piece the Siciliana rhythm (dotted quaver, semiquaver, quaver, or dotted eighth note, sixteenth note, eighth note).



- page 56 Niccolò PAGANINI (1782-1840) VALTZ
Take care to damp the bass notes properly from the second quaver (eighth note) of the bar. This piece consists of two sections which are repeated, so it has an A-A-B-B structure, also called binary form. You can make particularly good use of the repeat if you aim to give it a different feel each time. Thus you could play the B section in a non-conclusive fashion the first time round, and in a conclusive fashion the second time.




I ask you first to work on all these exercises and pieces for one week and then to post your recordings on the forum for:
- page 88 number 10
- Page 94 number 30, bar 2
- page 11 ANONYME (ca. 1700) GREENSLEEVES
- page 56 Niccolò PAGANINI (1782-1840) VALTZ


Good luck!


I thank Geoff (GeoffB) who has helped in the translation of my lessons into English.


Jean-François

---

Exam qualifying submissions:

page 88 number 10
Page 94 number 30, bar 2
GREENSLEEVES
VALTZ

Tom Wimsatt
page 88 number 10
Page 94 number 30, bar 2
GREENSLEEVES
VALTZ

Edna Lopez
page 88 number 10
Page 94 number 30, bar 2
GREENSLEEVES
VALTZ

Ed Butler
page 88 number 10
Page 94 number 30, bar 2
GREENSLEEVES
VALTZ

OlgaVovk
page 88 number 10
Page 94 number 30, bar 2
GREENSLEEVES

Charles Cook
page 88 number 10
Page 94 number 30, bar 2
GREENSLEEVES
VALTZ
:( + ♫ = :)

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:42 pm

Moderator help request, or anyone else reading this:

I took a look at Brian Boru's March. After trying various parts out, I am a little puzzled as to the proper fingering. For example:

1) The second and third lines. Applying Line #1 of the piece as an example, I see why "a" is appropriate when it preceeds an "m/i" note pair, but what about the C/D note pair of measure noted as #3? Is that played as "a/i" or "m/i"? It is not intuitive to me.
They're pretty far apart, so I also thought the D might be played with the thumb. It also occurs to me that if I mute the quarter base notes (with my thumb) while playing the 1/8th note, then this fingering strategy (fingers playing C/D versus finger playing C and thumb playing D) seems right.

2) Several areas following the Boxed portion of the second page. I can imagine leading the dotted quaver with "m" or "I"....

3) Speaking of muting, should I mute the base quarter notes. I think so, reading between the lines so to speak. The author placed the 1/8th base note right on top of the 1st voice in some cases. Why else would this be done (other than to make things work mathematically)? It is not indicated on the score ( using the " * " symbol). But the fingering issue mentioned above (and elsewhere in the piece) becomes a little more solvable.

So basically, I'm confused. I ran into this often in the Frederic Noad books I've worked with in the past, so maybe it's just me. When I am unsure of fingering my playing sort of takes on a random pattern, whatever works that day. It makes the piece harder to learn and at times frustrating.

I know this is a bad habit, but how does one (a student) sort out proper fingering without driving themselves nuts in the process? Perhaps its as simple as penciling in an approach and working iteratively on refinement as I practice the piece?

I hope the above questions makes sense. Perhaps I could pencil in my fingering approach and let people comment, before spending a lot of time practicing it?
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Robert Goodwin » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:05 pm

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:42 pm
Moderator help request, or anyone else reading this:

I took a look at Brian Boru's March. After trying various parts out, I am a little puzzled as to the proper fingering. For example:

1) The second and third lines. Applying Line #1 of the piece as an example, I see why "a" is appropriate when it preceeds an "m/i" note pair, but what about the C/D note pair of measure noted as #3? Is that played as "a/i" or "m/i"? It is not intuitive to me.
They're pretty far apart, so I also thought the D might be played with the thumb. It also occurs to me that if I mute the quarter base notes (with my thumb) while playing the 1/8th note, then this fingering strategy (fingers playing C/D versus finger playing C and thumb playing D) seems right.

2) Several areas following the Boxed portion of the second page. I can imagine leading the dotted quaver with "m" or "I"....

3) Speaking of muting, should I mute the base quarter notes. I think so, reading between the lines so to speak. The author placed the 1/8th base note right on top of the 1st voice in some cases. Why else would this be done (other than to make things work mathematically)? It is not indicated on the score ( using the " * " symbol). But the fingering issue mentioned above (and elsewhere in the piece) becomes a little more solvable.

So basically, I'm confused. I ran into this often in the Frederic Noad books I've worked with in the past, so maybe it's just me. When I am unsure of fingering my playing sort of takes on a random pattern, whatever works that day. It makes the piece harder to learn and at times frustrating.

I know this is a bad habit, but how does one (a student) sort out proper fingering without driving themselves nuts in the process? Perhaps its as simple as penciling in an approach and working iteratively on refinement as I practice the piece?

I hope the above questions makes sense. Perhaps I could pencil in my fingering approach and let people comment, before spending a lot of time practicing it?
Hi Tom,
You are absolutely right that simply letting the fingers choose which one to use doesn't work well at all. If I may offer my limited experience, here are a few things I've learned that helped.

After many false starts in D01 and D02, I came to be religious about obeying any finger markings, both ima and 1234. Where there are markings at the beginning of a piece but not all the way through, I tend to use the earlier marked fingering in similar situations further on. The repetition is easier to remember. This is pretty common with arpeggios. When I was printing the lessons, I tended to mark my own notations wherever I felt I needed help. Sometimes I just needed to repeat the markings for my aging eyes. Fortunately cataract surgery has eliminated that problem. In one case, a rapid fire section of Malaguenia without markings, I simply couldn't get any speed going. In desperation, I watched the Professor's video again and noticed in the middle of that flurry of notes he used his thumb. Suddenly it all fell into place.

This is all anecdotal and generalized but hopefully there is some small nugget of information you can extract.
Best regards,
Bob G.

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:57 pm

Robert, thanks very much for the response. I'll do what you suggest and perhaps post a pic for folks to comment on.
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by OlgaVovk » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:13 am

Hi Tom and Robert,
I agree with Robert. And actually folowing his routine as well.
I learned from my son, who studied at Peabody to write down on the printed piece as much as possible, including all fingering (for all repeats), all pima, or whatever combinations needed, all notation. And any other information which might be helpful. Like where to breath, dinamics, etc.

That makes the printed piece of music very busy, but that helps a lot.
I will put my nottaion and upload the picture of the piece as well.

Best,
Olga

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:07 pm

OlgaVovk wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:13 am
Hi Tom and Robert,
I agree with Robert. And actually folowing his routine as well.
I learned from my son, who studied at Peabody to write down on the printed piece as much as possible, including all fingering (for all repeats), all pima, or whatever combinations needed, all notation. And any other information which might be helpful. Like where to breath, dinamics, etc.

That makes the printed piece of music very busy, but that helps a lot.
I will put my nottaion and upload the picture of the piece as well.

Best,
Olga
Hi Olga. I finally started marking out the fingering on paper. I may post it, a page at a time, for people to throw rocks at so to speak, and also to force myself to keep thinking this through as I learn the piece.

I was kind of lazy about this in the past and the habit is finally catching up with me.

Tom W.
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Ed Butler » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:36 pm

Hi Olga, Tom - I am doing the same. This forces me to slow down and get it correct in tempo, fingering, etc , or at least close to correct, before speeding up.

Ed

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Ed Butler » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:59 pm

Tom, Olga et al.

What are your thoughts on the left elbow. Should it be pointing out or down? I feel if I point it down, my left fingers are not parallel to the strings, but if I point it away from my body, my arm gets tired quickly. I can see that I am holding my elbow close to the body which is wrong and I am trying to break the habit, but would like your feeling on what my goal for the elbow should be.

Thanks

Ed

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Ed Butler » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:40 pm

to better understand - should my left arm be parallel (angle is 90 degrees) to the neck, in which case the elbow is out or should the left elbow be down in which case the arm angle is less than 90 degrees to the neck.

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:00 am

Pics would help Ed. But if you feel tension or get tired you’re probably doing it wrong. If this continues you’ll hurt yourself. Better to adjust the neck of the guitar than chicken wing the arm.
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:55 am

Ed Butler wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:59 pm
Tom, Olga et al.

What are your thoughts on the left elbow. Should it be pointing out or down? I feel if I point it down, my left fingers are not parallel to the strings, but if I point it away from my body, my arm gets tired quickly. I can see that I am holding my elbow close to the body which is wrong and I am trying to break the habit, but would like your feeling on what my goal for the elbow should be.

Thanks

Ed
Hi Ed. I just saw this post after getting home from work, so I haven’t tried any of this myself yet. But, I first wanted to suggest the elbow be positioned such that the wrist is relaxed /straight. However after thinking a bit more (the finger position issue you mentioned), I am betting the guitar neck, or more specifically, your guitar support position (where it is attached to the guitar) may be off a bit. As was suggested, try uploading a video with you playing, at the time when you start to get uncomfortable. Maybe one of us can help you figure this out.

I'm going to explore this myself in the meantime. I remember Lucian had a similar issue once upon a time, but I don't remember what he did about it, do you?
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Ed Butler » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:38 pm

Rick, Tom - thanks. I will take pictures.
Rick - it does feel like "chicken wing" when I move the elbow out to far so I will watch that.

Ed

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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Ed Butler » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:12 pm

Okay - this is with the left arm "hanging down" (so less than 90 degrees to the neck). This feels comfortable but I am not sure my left palm and fingers are parallel to the neck. Thoughts?


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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:01 pm

Hi Ed. Hmmmm. Your position looks pretty good. ...

I was thinking about this last night, and after watching the video I'm wondering if you are leaning forward slightly. This is a stretch but maybe you are holding your arm forward a bit? The neck looks a bit high too. I know this isn't much help. Maybe others can recommend something more tangible.

UPDATE UPDATE! Try bringing your shoulders back a bit and rotating the guitar CCW to bring your ELBOW closer in the plane of the shoulders.
Last edited by Tom Wimsatt on Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 03

Post by Ed Butler » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:06 pm

Hi Tom

Thanks. You research on the internet and you get way too many ideas and then I get brain freeze. You are right about my "Slouch". I think it is better with the guitar support (rather than foot test) but it definitely can be improved.

With the position of my arm here, I find it is a stretch to catch correctly the B note at the beginning of BORU'S MARCH. If I move the elbow out, the stretch is easier but it tires my arm.

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