D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

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The classical guitar lessons are free. They are aimed at the isolated amateur who does not have access to a teacher. To join the class, apply for registration into the students group.

PDF, MP3, Vidéos, Lessons : Level D01 - Level D02 - Level D03 - Level D04 - Level D05 - Level D06 - Level D07 - Level D08 - Level D09 - Level D10 - Level D11 - Level D12.
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Jean-François Delcamp
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D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:01 pm

Hello everyone,
Please start by downloading the latest version of volume D02.
If you are new to the course, please read this message to familiarize yourself with the conditions for participating in the lessons. You should also read the first message in lesson 1, where you will find advice on how to make the most of your study time and on the methods of practising that I recommend.


First we will study some technical exercises from volume D02.
- page 83 Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) BARRÉ - BARRÉ - BARRÉ - CEJILLA
Avoid bending your left wrist, as this not only hurts, but also hinders the mobility of your fingers. Aim for the position (of the guitar neck, your elbow and your shoulder) which will allow you to play without bending your left wrist, as shown in the following video.
Note that you must play for 6 days of the week. If you combine all this time into one day, that is to say, 2 hours in a single day, you will not make progress and furthermore you will risk injuring yourself by making demands on certain muscles for too long. Divide up your practice and play a little each day.




Next we'll work on five pieces :
- page 31 Nicolas DEROSIERS (1660?-1720?) CHACONNE


- pages 44-47 Ferdinando CARULLI (1770-1841) RONDO Opus 241


- page 59 Felix HORETZKY (1796-1870) AMUSEMENT


- page 70 ANONYME (ca. 1850) DOS PALOMAS


- page 62 ANONYME Dans les jardins d'mon pere




I ask you first to work on all these exercises and pieces for one week and then to post your recordings on the forum for:
- page 31 Nicolas DEROSIERS (1660?-1720?) CHACONNE
- pages 44-47 Ferdinando CARULLI (1770-1841) RONDO Opus 241


Good luck!

We have reached the end of this year of studying together. I am intending to resume next year.

My thanks to the students, to Geoff for his splendid translations, and also to Colin Bullock, John Montes, Rick Beauregard, Marko Räsänen and lagartija who have enabled these courses to run so smoothly.

I wish you all a good summer. See you again soon.

Jean-François
:( + ♫ = :)

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Ken Kim
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Ken Kim » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:29 pm

Hi, all.
Here we are at the final lesson for D02.
I'm still working on Chaconne and Rondo.
I recorded additional pieces first and it is a bit easier than above 2.




Ken

♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥

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Judy Verbeeten
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Judy Verbeeten » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:56 pm

Ken, you are an amazing classical guitar music machine. You are undoubtedly my classical guitar student role model, well ahead of the curve of the rest of us.

Personally, I know you could easily complete D03 and D04 in one year, but I wonder if you could not just as easily handle D03, D04 AND D05 in one year. You could polish off the D03 and D04 pieces in the summer and work on D05 during the year. A little bit of a rush during exam period but you seem to master individual pieces within a week. Alternatively, perhaps you do not want to rush the whole process and will be content with perfecting all the pieces in D03 and D04. But your French classmates undoubtedly gave you good advice - you should definitely complete more than just D03 next year.

Thank you for sharing these pieces. I watch your hand positions carefully - particularly your right hand, where there is so little movement and so much control. I just keep pondering how you get that amazing legato sound.

Again, thank you for sharing these pieces - always a learning experience.

Judy

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Mike Cook
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Mike Cook » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:31 pm

It all sounds great as usual, Ken! I think your tone is also improving, but maybe I'm just hearing the difference between guitars. I can't wait to hear your Rondo!
2019 Elias Bonet Monne Traditional Cedar/Green Ebony
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Ken Kim
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Ken Kim » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:49 pm

Judy Verbeeten wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:56 pm
1) Ken, you are an amazing classical guitar music machine. You are undoubtedly my classical guitar student role model, well ahead of the curve of the rest of us.

2) Personally, I know you could easily complete D03 and D04 in one year, but I wonder if you could not just as easily handle D03, D04 AND D05 in one year. You could polish off the D03 and D04 pieces in the summer and work on D05 during the year. A little bit of a rush during exam period but you seem to master individual pieces within a week. Alternatively, perhaps you do not want to rush the whole process and will be content with perfecting all the pieces in D03 and D04. But your French classmates undoubtedly gave you good advice - you should definitely complete more than just D03 next year.

3) Thank you for sharing these pieces. I watch your hand positions carefully - particularly your right hand, where there is so little movement and so much control. I just keep pondering how you get that amazing legato sound.
1) Thank you much for listening, Judy. :merci:
I only plays maestro Delcamp's books but nothing else. It seems many students play other than his book. I really put myself into his method. I don't even feel I need to work on Giuliani RH study yet.

2) D03 wouldn't be hard for me but not sure for D04. I am still not planing to finish both D03 and D04 together. The my way of learning and how to determine right level are different than others.
I would play D02 pieces beautifully to my ear to enjoy it. I'd rather not stay to struggle in higher level.(If it isn't musical to your ears, what is the point of learning?)
It is definitely easier way to improve, because If my skill is good for current D02 pieces, more practice make those skills greater. It always benefit me for harder piece later.
French forum members suggested me to do D04 because they compared from me to current D04 students. It isn't right way to determine right level for students, but I respected their comments because they are already advanced players. I really doubt myself belongs to D04.

3) To be honest, your right hand position isn't much improving in my opinion, but you are getting used to stroke it that way. You are not using knuckle joint much. On the contrary, your left hand is coming along really well with skillful move. What happened to RH support from SBM??

Well, I am not trying to advance into higher level fast at all. It isn't good for my foundation. I want to play comfortable and it will make me to put my feeling more easier. I might do D04 again in September, 2020.
Ken

♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥

Robert England Hauser / Amalio Burguet Especial
Cordoba C12SP, Torres & Rodriguez
Yamaha Silent SLG200NW / Ryoji Matsuoka M60

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Ken Kim
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Ken Kim » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:28 pm

Mike Cook wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:31 pm
It all sounds great as usual, Ken! I think your tone is also improving, but maybe I'm just hearing the difference between guitars. I can't wait to hear your Rondo!
Thank you, Mike. I think it is all guitar and mics. :lol:
I made a rough recording on Rondo today with lots of mistakes. It will come out pretty well later on with more repetitions. :bye:
Ken

♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥

Robert England Hauser / Amalio Burguet Especial
Cordoba C12SP, Torres & Rodriguez
Yamaha Silent SLG200NW / Ryoji Matsuoka M60

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Judy Verbeeten
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Judy Verbeeten » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:17 pm

Ken Kim wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:49 pm

3) To be honest, your right hand position isn't much improving in my opinion, but you are getting used to stroke it that way. You are not using knuckle joint much. On the contrary, your left hand is coming along really well with skillful move. What happened to RH support from SBM??
Yes Ken, that is my focus over the summer - the right hand. I appreciate you persistence in reminding me of its importance. My right hand is much more elevated now (it was ridiculously flat when I started) - but I will focus on the knuckle joint.

I understand your philosophy of perfecting each level and playing and enjoying all the musical pieces of each lesson. The proof is in the pudding - your playing is advancing and improving exponentially, so clearly what you are doing is the right approach for you. Believe me, for selfish reasons, I would love it, if you took one level, a year at a time. Either way, it is a delight to witness your progress.

Have a great summer. I'll still check this lesson for any other submissions you decide to post.

Best, Judy.

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Mike Cook
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Mike Cook » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:29 am

Thank you, Mike. I think it is all guitar and mics. :lol:
I made a rough recording on Rondo today with lots of mistakes. It will come out pretty well later on with more repetitions. :bye:
[/quote]

Ken- you are doing great. It is fun to watch you become a talented CG guitarist.

This forum is just too much fun. I love it. I can’t get enough CG!! Looking forward to the Cleveland International Guitar Festival this weekend. I have tickets for Xuefei Yang, Jason Bieaux, and Petra Polackova. It’s going to be a weekend of performances, lectures, and Master Classes. The only negative is that I won’t have time to play guitar for three whole days! What to do??? LOL!!
2019 Elias Bonet Monne Traditional Cedar/Green Ebony
2017 Cordoba 20th Anniversary Guitar
1993 Jose Ramirez R2
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Ken Kim
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Ken Kim » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:54 pm

Hi, Judy, Linda and Mike.

Here I present you my Rondo; 40 days of practice. :)
I met the tempo required but I could not get rid of small mistakes. It is difficult to learn and has given me a lot of headaches. :ouioui:
I even physically shouted 'AH ~ !!!!!!!!' several times with each recording attempts.
If my brain is lost for 1 second, a big mistake occurs. This Rondo puts your brain and your concentration to the test with fast tempo.
You will hear a lot of buzzing and flaws. I might have played slower than that, but in my opinion, this Rondo is a matter of speed.
I will try to post a better version later. :discussion:

Ken

♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥

Robert England Hauser / Amalio Burguet Especial
Cordoba C12SP, Torres & Rodriguez
Yamaha Silent SLG200NW / Ryoji Matsuoka M60

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Judy Verbeeten
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Judy Verbeeten » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:54 pm

Ken Kim wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:54 pm

Here I present you my Rondo
Whoa, Ken - if it took you 40 days of practice, I know it would take me at least 10 times as long.

3 questions, if I may:

(1) When you say 40 days of practice, how much time would you be practicing on a daily basis?

(2) How much of your daily practice time would be devoted to this one piece?

(3) Would you focus on just one segment of the piece, for a few days at a time, or would you play through the piece each time?

I am interested to know how you approach learning each month's pieces. Thanks in advance, Judy.

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Judy Verbeeten
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Judy Verbeeten » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:15 pm

Ken Kim wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:54 pm
Here I present you my Rondo
Sorry Ken - one more question I forgot to ask in the first post.

I thought your submission of the D03 exam piece Nesta Rua was simply excellent. By comparison to the practice required for the Rondo piece, I would like to know how long it took you to perfect the Nesta Rua piece: (i) how many days of practice; (ii) how much time was devoted to learning the Nesta Rua piece during each practice: and again, (iii) whether you practiced the entire piece each time, or focused on only segments of the piece for a few days at a time and then moved on.

When I try to learn a piece, I stubbornly try to play the piece, through and through, repeatedly, for an entire practice session. Then I return the next day and do the same thing. I have a feeling this is exactly the wrong way to approach things - all or nothing. I am really curious to learn from your approach to practice in general, and to learning pieces in specific.

Thank you again, Judy.

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Ken Kim
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Ken Kim » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:38 pm

Judy Verbeeten wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:54 pm
Whoa, Ken - if it took you 40 days of practice, I know it would take me at least 10 times as long.

3 questions, if I may:

(1) When you say 40 days of practice, how much time would you be practicing on a daily basis?

(2) How much of your daily practice time would be devoted to this one piece?

(3) Would you focus on just one segment of the piece, for a few days at a time, or would you play through the piece each time?

I am interested to know how you approach learning each month's pieces. Thanks in advance, Judy.
Hi, Judy.
It won't take 10 times as long if you study it right.
Most students approach piece like this as normal short piece.
IMO, this piece is divided with 7 different themes. I practiced these separately and connected them later.


My strategic point to this Rondo is following:

A theme: Measure 1 -15
B theme: Measure 15 - 29
C theme: Measure 29 - 37
D theme: Measure 37 - 45
E theme: Measure 45 - 54

F theme: Measure 54 - 69
G theme: Measure 69 - 78

A,C,F is same theme which is repeating. However, A,C,F are main theme and B,D,E,G is decoration of this tune.
Well now you can see that it is 5 different themes to practice. All B,D,E,G are difficult. I had to divide D and E to practice separately because I had a hard time to get used to it.

(1) I practice guitar approximately for 2 hours daily. I barely miss daily practice. I missed about 5-7 days of practice for last 23 months.

(2) I spent 30 - 45 mins on this Rondo Daily. I practiced this Rondo only for last 5 days.

(3) Absolutely, work and focus on one segment. Be sure to have some rest after 6 practices of same segment. I usually practice 3 different tunes daily, based on difficulty.

First tune is pretty new and unknown piece to me that I am introducing to myself with very less concentration.
Second tune is that I wanted to play slow in very constant tempo. I speed up little by little daily. (getting used)
Third tune is finalizing stage to put more tempo variance, dynamic and nuances with required tempo, etc....

I often practiced 5 different tunes daily from time to time.

(4) About my Nesta Rua, Video I uploaded on D03 was 5 days old. I don't know why but it wasn't really hard for me. Nevertheless, result was not-fluid and too slow with sloppy glissando.

Once again, divide as many and little segment as you can. You will connect each segments later easier.
I don't practice same segment more than 6 times once when I start working on it. Move to another segment(or have some rest about 15 min) after 6 repeats. You can go back to same segment again if you think it is necessary. Some of segment takes much longer than easy one. 2-3 sets of 6 repeats.
It sounds like work-out strategy. :lol:

Sorry that I couldn't write down more in formal way. I hope it helps.
Ken

♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥♫✥

Robert England Hauser / Amalio Burguet Especial
Cordoba C12SP, Torres & Rodriguez
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Judy Verbeeten
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Judy Verbeeten » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:00 pm

Ken Kim wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:38 pm
Hi, Judy.
Ken, thank you so much for answering ALL my inquiries. I have already copied and pasted your response to a word document so I can revisit it as needed. Very helpful information. Thank you again.

Judy

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Rick Beauregard » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:04 am

Judy Verbeeten wrote:
Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

When I try to learn a piece, I stubbornly try to play the piece, through and through, repeatedly, for an entire practice session. Then I return the next day and do the same thing. I have a feeling this is exactly the wrong way to approach things - all or nothing. I am really curious to learn from your approach to practice in general, and to learning pieces in specific.

Thank you again, Judy.
Congratulations on getting through the course Jusy.

This is an excellent question. Most will recommend breaking the piece into small sections and practicing these sections, repeating at slow speed and speeding up as you are able to play the section without mistakes. Then another section and so on. Then practice linking each section to the next to get smooth transitions.

I have a variation/elaboration of this great advice. I first break the piece into major sections. A, B, C etc. you may find most pieces repeat one or more of these sections (paragraphs if you will). Then each major section I break into several phrases or “sentences”. Usually it is rather obvious when you listen with the score in hand where these sentences begin and end. Maybe these have to be subdivided further. This is all marked on my score in green highlighter.

I then practice each section slow as I need to be able to play it with minimal error and repeat. Many times. It will start to be obvious which sections are going to give me problems. I break out the orange highlighter and mark those to spend extra time on them.

I try to spend no more than 5 minutes working on any one phrase then I move on to another one. 5 min. Then a third. Then I start again going back to the first. And so on. These 5-min segments of 15 min total I repeat theee Times in a 45 minute session and then rest. Since using this approach will result in more time sent at the beginning of the piece than the end, I skip to the end or the middle talking a phrase from there instead of always from to back. This type of practice (called Interleaved Practice) is supposed to enhance memory retention and recovery. I then work on the links between phrases. As soon as I can play the whole piece front to back I practice that, but not exclusively. Maybe just at the beginning and at the end of a 45 min session. I also try to focus a little extra in the very first notes and the last notes to nail the beginning and ending.

I also do this same approach with working it up to tempo but do a lot more whole piece practice at increasing g tempo once I’ve learned it. This is just my opinion but I also try to incorporate interpretive things, dynamics etc. from the beginning instead of trying to bolt that on after you learn the piece. I just enjoy playing it “musically” from the get go.

Judging by my results I wouldn’t necessarily give this much credence. But it is my ability to stick with this plan and execute rather that the value of the plan I am sure.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
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Judy Verbeeten
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 10

Post by Judy Verbeeten » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:13 am

Rick Beauregard wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:04 am
This is an excellent question.
Rick, thank you for your perspective and additional commentary. I am definitely going to take Ken's and your advice and reevaluate my approach to learning pieces. I really appreciate your input. Thank you.

And hearty congratulations on completing D07.

Judy

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