The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

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The classical guitar lessons are free. They are aimed at the isolated amateur who does not have access to a teacher. To join the class, apply for registration into the students group.

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wbajzek

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by wbajzek » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:08 pm

googee52 wrote:Alice's explanation of the mechanics has been so helpful - I've been playing with an almost flat wrist and sure enough had problems with hitting the adjacent string. a slight bending of the wrist, bringing the knuckles so they are above the string to be played makes that problem go away.
That's not the only way to solve that problem, though; if you kept your wrist straight but moved your hand across the face of the guitar (towards the floor), which would cause your fingers to be more curved towards the palm when you start the stroke, and you used the same pendulum-swinging motion she mentions from the big knuckle joint, you should miss the adjacent strings.

This stuff is so hard to describe.

googee52

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by googee52 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:52 am

googee52 wrote:
Alice's explanation of the mechanics has been so helpful - I've been playing with an almost flat wrist and sure enough had problems with hitting the adjacent string. a slight bending of the wrist, bringing the knuckles so they are above the string to be played makes that problem go away.


wbajzek wrote: That's not the only way to solve that problem, though; if you kept your wrist straight but moved your hand across the face of the guitar (towards the floor), which would cause your fingers to be more curved towards the palm when you start the stroke, and you used the same pendulum-swinging motion she mentions from the big knuckle joint, you should miss the adjacent strings.

This stuff is so hard to describe.
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you are so right, which is why Alice's video is so informative. maybe the difference can be described: hold your right hand in position but look at it in profile, as though you were looking at the hand from just off the fret board vantage point. Doing what you describe means the angle between your curved fingers and the back of your hand approaches 90 degrees. My angle is wider than that. part of my problem is that my fingers can get in the way of each other as I close that angle. Hope that makes sense.

googee52

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by googee52 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:53 am

btw
how does everyone know how to shade someones post they wish to respond to but me?

giftson

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by giftson » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:45 am

Really helpful videos .... Thanks for the post .....
lv
Gift

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Paul
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Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by Paul » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:08 am

googee52 wrote:btw
how does everyone know how to shade someones post they wish to respond to but me?
The "quote" button is very useful and can be used before or during a post. Have a look at this explanation: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=24921#p242668

Paul

googee52

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by googee52 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:09 pm

Paul wrote: The "quote" button is very useful and can be used before or during a post. Have a look at this explanation: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=24921#p242668
Thanks!

jurica_c

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by jurica_c » Mon May 04, 2009 6:57 pm

Userful videos. I have learned many things. Thanks for posting.

Jurica

virrr

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by virrr » Thu May 07, 2009 10:01 am

These videos are great, taught me a lot :)

wbajzek

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by wbajzek » Thu May 07, 2009 2:10 pm

Alice has two books that I know of, Rhythmic Mastery and the Art of Practicing. Both are great, and I've found the latter to be extraordinarily helpful.

houseofj

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by houseofj » Sun May 31, 2009 6:57 am

Merci JFD...

zinc1024

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by zinc1024 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:00 pm

Am I the only one really bothered by these videos?

The notion that it's "natural" to play with that giant cocked wrist isn't logical. Sure, if you bring you arm across the guitar and let your wrist and hand go limp, it hangs down at that angle. Does that make playing that way "natural" or "correct"? I don't think so. Our hand/wrist general stays straight all the time as we move our arm around, and it doesn't take any particular "tension" to do so. I'd say straight is the "natural" position of our wrist and hand relative to our arm, NOT flippy-floppy based on wherever earth gravity is pulling the hand.

Playing with a highly cocked wrist can't possibly help re: ease and freedom of finger movement. Also, there's a danger of getting a very thin tone with such a posture due to too acute a striking angle on the strings, and not getting a nice balance of flesh and nail in the stroke (danger, not saying getting it right with that posture isn't possible).

I know for certain this isn't the method taught (and pretty much required) at the SF Conservatory of Music. Straight wrist/hand for the most part, nicely arched, "natural". I've been working hard for almost a year to eliminate the wrist cock presented in this video (along with getting a nice arch).

Not to say it can't or doesn't work. It's pretty surely not the modern canonical way to go re: right hand ergonomics, though. Any beginner should "shop around" before going down this particular path; make a very informed decision, as it'll be very difficult to re-learn if required later.

-Kevin

abielikesu

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by abielikesu » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:31 pm

Thanks for the videos. Very informative.

avoz

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by avoz » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:27 pm

zinc1024 wrote:Am I the only one really bothered by these videos?

Our hand/wrist general stays straight all the time as we move our arm around, and it doesn't take any particular "tension" to do so. I'd say straight is the "natural" position of our wrist and hand relative to our arm, NOT flippy-floppy based on wherever earth gravity is pulling the hand.
Zinc, The last sentence is true IF the arm is hanging down, totally relaxed (with the aid of gravity) at 90 degrees as when we are out walking or doing nothing in particular. However, I have never seen a guitarist play with the arm-hand unit coming down in a rectilinear manner - most players angle their arm (to varying degrees) from the top bout at a point more or less in line with the bridge, towards the soundhole (pointing more towards the left leg rather than the right). As can be seen in videos of Segovia, John Williams et al the hand is allowed to relax, rather than kept up (which inevitably induces some tension - the 'particular tension' you mention might be acceptable to you but is not, ipso facto, a norm) in line with the arm; the amount of relaxation will be reduced when the hand is angled deliberately to facilitate a change of attack/timbre. If your right arm is in the common position on the top bout and the forearm is angled to wards your left leg (rather than directly down towards the right leg) let your hand completely relax so the weight creates a 'droop' when the hinge at the wrist is allowed to react to gravity - you may not immediately like it (or ever), but no musician should avoid experimentation with old and new techniques, particularly when the efficacy of an 'old' methodology is well proven by the greatest players. Ironically, the 'modern' technique you mention has more in common with the 'older' one used by Sor et al and is facilitated by the use of 'louder' guitars and amplification.

Penelope Phillips-Armand

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by Penelope Phillips-Armand » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:11 pm

I'm relatively new at this, but I'm very much interested in the notion of arching the right forearm-and-hand unit rather than cocking the wrist or keeping it straight--the arch seems less self-conscious and more natural to master intuitively. Can someone give some online video examples or illustrations?

Tubbers
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Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by Tubbers » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:52 am

I've been trying her right hand bend for a bit and it does feel very relaxed and gets a nice tone but it just doesn't feel natural to me. It would be nice to have her right here to show me. :)
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