The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

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The classical guitar lessons are free. They are aimed at the isolated amateur who does not have access to a teacher. To join the class, apply for registration into the students group.

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henk68

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by henk68 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:52 pm

Thank you for these great videos. Although I'm not a very experienced player I certainly can see the importance of a good and stable position of the right hand.

Greetz

Henk

Hybrid

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by Hybrid » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:22 pm

Anybody else notice the contradictions in what she's saying to how she actually plays in her performance
videos?
Her pinky is thrusting straight out, looking extremely tense. Not good. Not relaxed.

Also, she talks about many players not using the thumb independantly, and how the arm guides the thumb.
She says this is wrong, and bad for independance.

Then when you watch her play in her "How to play 19th century music" video, she's doing exactly what she says
not to do. Her arm directs her thumb around.

On a good note, i like that she reccomended rolling chords for romantic music. So many people these days seem
so against doing that. She demonstrates wonderfully how rediculous some things can sound when playing all
chords totally blocked- notes together.

As for wrist position, its obvious that this is an individual thing that a player has to work out on their own, similar
to nail shape and sitting position.
People are shorter, taller, longer forearms, shorter forearms, shorter, longer fingers, etc etc. There can be no one
default wrist position that will fit everybody.

One can utilize most of her advice minus the wrist position. The main points are not really about cranking your wrist
one way or the other. She gets across the physics of how you want to move the strings, and thats all you need to know.

H

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Cary W
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Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by Cary W » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:21 pm

Hybrid wrote:People are shorter, taller, longer forearms, shorter forearms, shorter, longer fingers, etc etc. There can be no one
default wrist position that will fit everybody.
I appreciate your common-sense approach.

Cheers.
2008 Yamaha GC31C Indian/cedar D'Addario EJ46
1987 Yamaha GC-3 Indian/cedar D'Addario EJ45

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Cary W
Posts: 4643
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: North of Montreal

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by Cary W » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:28 pm

zinc1024 wrote:Not to say it can't or doesn't work. It's pretty surely not the modern canonical way to go re: right hand ergonomics, though. Any beginner should "shop around" before going down this particular path; make a very informed decision, as it'll be very difficult to re-learn if required later.

-Kevin
I concur.

By the way, zinc1024, is that an alias for Kevin R. Gallagher? One hears of royalty disguising themselves to walk among the common folk. :P
2008 Yamaha GC31C Indian/cedar D'Addario EJ46
1987 Yamaha GC-3 Indian/cedar D'Addario EJ45

LarryS

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by LarryS » Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:33 pm

Thanks so much for these videos. Her explanation of the muscles use in stretching out ones hand have already fix my wayward pinkie. She also answered my question about the scraping on a wound string.

dfaz

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt

Post by dfaz » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:26 pm

Thank you so much for posting these very informative videos. No matter how long a person plays classical guitar, he can always learn from the pros. I'm one of those players who is experiencing fairly severe tendonitis, arthritis of the wrists, and ulnar nerve damage, so I'm particularly interestes in any information that may help me relieve the problems. Most of my problems stem from years of playing both classical and acoustic guitar. I think the steel string tension is what caused most of my problems along with repetitive stress injury from practicing scales, etc., maybe using improper hand and arm positioning even though i was studying under a Peabody trained teacher. Anyway, thanks again for the videos.

junbo

Re: Alice Artzt

Post by junbo » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:41 am

Hi JF,

I haven't spent much time on my guitar (and this forum) these last couple of years but am coming back to both guitar and forum after recently hearing and meeting Minoru Inagaki, a fine Japanese concertiste, and some guitar enthusiasts with whom I am now going to spend time playing and learning. I am also considering getting a tutor.

But I'm replying to your post to thank you, firstly, for these Alice Artzt videos. Now I am eager to try out her recommended technique. I like her explanations; my learning style depends on visual as well as verbal explanations, with a lot of logic thrown in, and that's exactly what Maestro Artzt has provided.

I had the pleasure of taking Maestro Artzt around the Philippines when she performed here in the early 70s. The guitar shop I was running was one of her sponsors. I remember that she had a Rubio (previously owned by Julian Bream) whose soundhole she corked when she stored it in the case (something to do with moisture management). She also had a glob of petroleum jelly dabbed on the base of the neck (where it joins the sides) where she'd dip her RH finger tips to keep them "lubricated." (Segovia used the natural oils from the side of his nose, hehe.) The other significant thing I remember is that she had computer printouts (these were pre-PC days so these were produced by an IBM 360 mainframe) of various LH and RH exercise combinations randomly generated. I thought that was very OC of her (obsessive compulsive) but I was very pleased to see her authoring what has since become a very successful exercise book.

I wonder if you might have her email address. I'd just like to greet her (she'll never remember me, I'm sure, and she may not even remember ever performing in Manila) and congratulate her for her very successful guitar journey. And to thank her for her videos.

Cheers,
Junbo

Tarbaby (1953 - 2016)

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice A

Post by Tarbaby (1953 - 2016) » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:11 am

Hi junbo. Welcome back to the forum and to the guitar! :D

I'm afraid Mssr. Delcamp will probably not respond to your message. He's very busy with all the forums and not very confident with his English. He also probably does not have an Email address for Alice.

In 2003, I wanted to contact her to help me get in touch with her long-time friend Sergio Abreu, so I could buy one of his guitars. I got her Email address by asking at the New York City Classical Guitar Society:

http://www.nyccgs.com/index.php

They sent it to me the same day!

What a thrill it must have been for you to spend time showing her around. She's a very nice person!

Good luck,

Alan

ps. You could also respond to her on one of her videos on YouTube. :wink:

junbo

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice A

Post by junbo » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:39 am

Thanks Alan. I shall contact the website you gave me and check out her YouTube videos.

And, yes, it was quite an experience taking her around in the Philippines back in the early 70s (I believe it was 1973 or 74). She was a very interesting person.

Cheers :D
Junbo

junbo

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice A

Post by junbo » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:13 am

Hi Alan,

I followed your advice and managed to send a message to Ms Artzt via her YouTube site. She very graciously replied, citing her fond memories of her Philippine visit. Thanks for making this contact possible.

Cheers,
Junbo
Tarbaby wrote:Hi junbo. Welcome back to the forum and to the guitar! :D

I'm afraid Mssr. Delcamp will probably not respond to your message. He's very busy with all the forums and not very confident with his English. He also probably does not have an Email address for Alice.

In 2003, I wanted to contact her to help me get in touch with her long-time friend Sergio Abreu, so I could buy one of his guitars. I got her Email address by asking at the New York City Classical Guitar Society:

http://www.nyccgs.com/index.php

They sent it to me the same day!

What a thrill it must have been for you to spend time showing her around. She's a very nice person!

Good luck,

Alan

ps. You could also respond to her on one of her videos on YouTube. :wink:

zinc1024

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice A

Post by zinc1024 » Tue May 04, 2010 11:00 pm

Cary W wrote:By the way, zinc1024, is that an alias for Kevin R. Gallagher? One hears of royalty disguising themselves to walk among the common folk. :P
If so I'm disguising myself from myself too! No, not Kevin R. Gallagher ("whoever he was" to quote Bob Dylan). I'm one of the great unwashed masses of amateur guitar playing "Kevin's"...

PhilipRiley

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice A

Post by PhilipRiley » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:04 pm

Thanks for this post. I just watched the first two installments and tried out the techniques with an immediate improvement in my tone and volume. I look forward to checking other videos by Alice Artz, and more improvements to my playing! I don't know whether the founders of YouTube intended it for education, but it has certainly helped me with the guitar. Previously I have been helped by watching experienced players play pieces I am trying to learn.

Philip Riley

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Fabbri
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Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice A

Post by Fabbri » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:40 am

That was the most useful half hour I've spent in a long time. The videos are exactly right both for beginners and for those who have muddled through for years developing bad habits in both hands. Many thanks to all involved.

AsturiasFan

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice A

Post by AsturiasFan » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:05 pm

After revamping my right hand technique, I now agree about the need for a wrist bend but think that the wrist bend is a secondary factor that one should not be concerned with. The primary concern is that the fingers be aligned for accuracy. I taught myself how to play without nails and with deep contact -- here accuracy in fast play can only be obtained with a superior hand position.
  1. The right hand should be positioned so that the fingers (when playing on a single string) form a line perfectly parallel to the string.
  2. To test correct alignment place all three finger tips behind and well below the string.
    1. no finger should be pressing against the string (except for the small pressure from the fact that your fingers may be wider than the width between strings)
    2. The fingers should be visibly perfectly aligned and parallel to the string.
[/*][/list]

This is the way I now position my hand and I do it totally by feel -- I don't need to look in a mirror since
the right side of the hand will always be perfectly parallel to the bridge. The feel of alignment is the constant that allows you to position your hand correctly despite variances in the way you hold the guitar or position your arm.

I think insistence on a certain specified rightward bend of the wrist is just plain wrong -- doing so for me only led to a sore wrist. If your right arm is positioned so that the elbow is as close to the bout as you can comfortably get there will be a large wrist bend to the right. But otherwise the bend may be very gentle. So you simply shouldn't try to duplicate the wrist bend that Alice or any one else uses. The wrist bend is determined by your own individual arm position and the alignment of the fingers.

etherline

Re: The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice A

Post by etherline » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:10 am

Now that is the introductory guitar lesson that I never had. Whether this particular approach is or is not the perfect one, it is quite the best demonstration of how and why to approach positioning of both hands that I have seen. I feel that I can use so much of that to examine what I am currently doing for flaws. *I* want a teacher like that!

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