Yikes ...

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:29 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:19 pm
RobMacKillop wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:36 pm
What's spiritual about it, Andrew? And what do you need a towel for, Mark?

Certainly, it is awe inspiring...but it's a giant leap backwards to suggest there is a spirit behind it.
Mmm, I'm not as certain of that as you Rob.
But neither point of view is exactly welcomed under the forum's terms and conditions ... :oops:
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Andrew Pohlman
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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:38 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:29 pm
Denian Arcoleo wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:19 pm
RobMacKillop wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:36 pm
What's spiritual about it, Andrew? And what do you need a towel for, Mark?

Certainly, it is awe inspiring...but it's a giant leap backwards to suggest there is a spirit behind it.
Mmm, I'm not as certain of that as you Rob.
But neither point of view is exactly welcomed under the forum's terms and conditions ... :oops:
I did not in any way suggest anything about a supreme being who created it all. Read my explanation of "spirituality" above. I refer only wonderment inherent in humankind. I find it meaningful to be a wimpy speck of thing amidst a vast cosmic landscape. It's humbling. That is all.
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Rognvald
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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Rognvald » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:31 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:28 pm
Rognvald wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:09 pm
....The universe is infinite and ever-expanding.
.... The earth is 14 billion years old. . . . ...
Awfully sorry old chap, but you know how it is ... I hope ...

Earth is c. 4.54 billion years old, the universe itself is more like 13.8 billion years old. And may or may not be either or both infinite or ever-expanding.

Hi, Stephen,
According to modern science "In 2012, WMAP estimated the age of the universe to be 13.772 billion years, with an uncertainty of 59 million years. In 2013, Planck measured the age of the universe at 13.82 billion years.June 8, 2017." My rounding off to 14 billion, based, on contemporary figures is well within the percentage of variability. The universe is infinite and ever-expanding(aren't they the theoretically the same?) I don't believe this is open to any other interpretation. Playing again . . . inter-galactically . . . Flash Rognvald Gordon.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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Re: Yikes ...

Post by PeteJ » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:21 am

Rognvald wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:09 pm
Man as a species is an arrogant creature. It is a result of the size of his brain and the power of speech. The universe is infinite and ever-expanding.
You have to make your mind up. Which is it - infinite or expanding?
Life has no significance.
As you say, human beings are arrogant. They say things like this with no idea whether they're correct.
We are representative of billions of types of matter whether alive or dead. The earth is 14 billion years old. Geez . . . all this stream of consciousness stuff is making me dizzy! What does this have to do with black holes? Everything. Playing again . . . Rognvald
It has everything to do with black holes. Metaphysicians study the world as whole with nothing excluded. The idea of infinitely compressed matter at a point is philosophically absurd, so it interests philosophers. especially those who conclude that extension is space-time is some kind of deception or illusion.

You're free to be as sceptical as you like but you cannot dismiss the Perennial philosophy just because it makes you dizzy and hand-waving is not going to make it go away.

Pardon me for reacting but this is a topic I know much better than CG and feel it deserves more thought.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:40 am

Rognvald wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:31 pm
...
Hi, Stephen,
According to modern science "In 2012, WMAP estimated the age of the universe to be 13.772 billion years, with an uncertainty of 59 million years. In 2013, Planck measured the age of the universe at 13.82 billion years.June 8, 2017." My rounding off to 14 billion, based, on contemporary figures is well within the percentage of variability. The universe is infinite and ever-expanding(aren't they the theoretically the same?) I don't believe this is open to any other interpretation. ...
Yes I was rounding up, as were you originally, but you didn't notice that you'd said the earth was 14 billion years old* - read your original more closely!

And no those two things are not the same, but the whole topic is the subject of a great deal of work by very bright people who do nothing all their professional lives but work on it ; whether you or I "believe this is open to any other interpretation" doesn't scratch a single chalk mark anywhere on that kind of physics. Go play your guitar! :chitarrista:

* earth existing as an accreted mass; obviously, the matter of which it is made is the same age as the universe, though all the heavier atoms were combined from lighter ones after the first or second phases of star formation.
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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Rognvald » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:35 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:40 am
Rognvald wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:31 pm
...
Hi, Stephen,
According to modern science "In 2012, WMAP estimated the age of the universe to be 13.772 billion years, with an uncertainty of 59 million years. In 2013, Planck measured the age of the universe at 13.82 billion years.June 8, 2017." My rounding off to 14 billion, based, on contemporary figures is well within the percentage of variability. The universe is infinite and ever-expanding(aren't they the theoretically the same?) I don't believe this is open to any other interpretation. ...
Yes I was rounding up, as were you originally, but you didn't notice that you'd said the earth was 14 billion years old* - read your original more closely!

And no those two things are not the same, but the whole topic is the subject of a great deal of work by very bright people who do nothing all their professional lives but work on it ; whether you or I "believe this is open to any other interpretation" doesn't scratch a single chalk mark anywhere on that kind of physics. Go play your guitar! :chitarrista:

* earth existing as an accreted mass; obviously, the matter of which it is made is the same age as the universe, though all the heavier atoms were combined from lighter ones after the first or second phases of star formation.

Professor Kenyon,
With the humblest gratitude and humility . . . I stand corrected. I am certainly relieved that I didn't make this remark in the penitent classroom of Sister Mary Knuckleknocker as my punishment would certainly have been much more severe. . . Playing again . . . in the universe . . . not the earth . . . Flash "Rognvald" Gordon, Esq.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Rognvald » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:44 pm

"You have to make your mind up. Which is it - infinite or expanding? " PeteJ


Hi, Pete,
Isn't an ever-expanding universe infinite? . . . And, if it is ever-expanding . . . there is no end. . . . I don't see a contradiction. Playing again in cosmic delight . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Rognvald wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:44 pm
Isn't an ever-expanding universe infinite?
Not yet ...

As ever young Gordon, your lexicon comprised (as it would appear) of words so very nearly identical to those in use in the English language only serves to reveal your true alien origins. Keep those knuckles under the desk - Sister Mary's on her way ...

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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Rognvald » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:23 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:48 pm
Rognvald wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:44 pm
Isn't an ever-expanding universe infinite?
Not yet ...

As ever young Gordon, your lexicon comprised (as it would appear) of words so very nearly identical to those in use in the English language only serves to reveal your true alien origins. Keep those knuckles under the desk - Sister Mary's on her way ...

Thanks, Mark,
I can assure you they were well-bloodied as a youngster. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Lovemyguitar » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:37 am

Rognvald wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:09 pm
Man as a species is an arrogant creature. It is a result of the size of his brain and the power of speech. The universe is infinite and ever-expanding. Life has no significance. We are representative of billions of types of matter whether alive or dead. Life has no significance...
My life has significance. That's good enough for me. I couldn't care less how small I am relative to the entire universe, nor what types of particles I am made of, because it does not affect the meaning of my life, which would be the same whatever size, shape, or nature the universe and everything in it happens to be. That does not make me arrogant, it makes me human. Life has significance and meaning because we give it significance and meaning, for ourselves.

If life is truly insignificant to you, if you truly believe that it doesn't matter whether you are alive or dead, then why do you participate in this forum? Why bother with anything at all?

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Re: Yikes ...

Post by PeteJ » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:57 am

Rognvald wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:44 pm
Hi, Pete,
Isn't an ever-expanding universe infinite? . . . And, if it is ever-expanding . . . there is no end. . . . I don't see a contradiction. Playing again in cosmic delight . . . Rognvald
Really? I would have thought the contradiction is too obvious to miss. An infinite space would contradict BB theory and if it is infinite it is not expanding.

On what grounds are you depressed about the meaning of life? ? It would be impossible to prove that our lives have no significance and it's even difficult to say exactly what 'significance' should mean in this context. At any rate, there is no known scientific or philosophical reason for pessimism, it's a personal choice.

Opinions are fine, I'm full of them, but I don't feel it's a good idea to present them as if they are uncontroversial unless we can put our money where our mouth is and provide some argument or supporting data.

Not being pedantic, just trying to avoid unnecessary arguments.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:26 pm

Rognvald wrote:I can assure you they were well-bloodied as a youngster.
Genuinely sorry to hear that Rognvald.

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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Rognvald » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:37 pm

PeteJ wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:57 am
Rognvald wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:44 pm
Hi, Pete,
Isn't an ever-expanding universe infinite? . . . And, if it is ever-expanding . . . there is no end. . . . I don't see a contradiction. Playing again in cosmic delight . . . Rognvald
Really? I would have thought the contradiction is too obvious to miss. An infinite space would contradict BB theory and if it is infinite it is not expanding.

On what grounds are you depressed about the meaning of life? ? It would be impossible to prove that our lives have no significance and it's even difficult to say exactly what 'significance' should mean in this context. At any rate, there is no known scientific or philosophical reason for pessimism, it's a personal choice.

Opinions are fine, I'm full of them, but I don't feel it's a good idea to present them as if they are uncontroversial unless we can put our money where our mouth is and provide some argument or supporting data.

Not being pedantic, just trying to avoid unnecessary arguments.

Hi, Pete,
I will agree to disagree. Isn't that what makes for a more interesting world? Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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Christopher Langley
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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Christopher Langley » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:55 pm

Lovemyguitar wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:37 am
Rognvald wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:09 pm
Man as a species is an arrogant creature. It is a result of the size of his brain and the power of speech. The universe is infinite and ever-expanding. Life has no significance. We are representative of billions of types of matter whether alive or dead. Life has no significance...
If life is truly insignificant to you, if you truly believe that it doesn't matter whether you are alive or dead, then why do you participate in this forum? Why bother with anything at all?
Because it's a fun distraction from the reality that we are all slowly dying and nothing means anything. :)

I bounce between nihilism and pantheism. I'm pretty sure either nothing is connected.. Or everything is. Haha.
My name is mud.

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Re: Yikes ...

Post by Lovemyguitar » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:44 pm

^^To each their own.

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