which is better?

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
wodezhengtuxin
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which is better?

Post by wodezhengtuxin » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:59 am

ABCDEFG OR do re mi fa sol la si do
and what about ti instead of si?

randalljazz
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Re: which is better?

Post by randalljazz » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:11 pm

for singing? two schools: fixed do and moveable do. for the former, use solfege; for the latter, use numbers.
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Andrew Pohlman
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Re: which is better?

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:44 pm

Ever since the Sound of Music, the clear winner has been do re mi fa sol la ti do. :D

In honesty, both forms are completely arbitrary and abstract, so pick one and go with it! I've had vocal coaches that use one,the other, or both. My guitar teachers always use A-G.

But it would be very difficult to compose lyrics using A-G, as in "A, a deer, a female deer" ?!?! :D
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musicbyandy
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Re: which is better?

Post by musicbyandy » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:03 pm

wodezhengtuxin wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:59 am
ABCDEFG OR do re mi fa sol la si do
and what about ti instead of si?
For what objective are you asking is ABCDEFG OR do re mi fa sol la si do better?

VasquezBob
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Re: which is better?

Post by VasquezBob » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:27 pm

ABC for instruments and DoReMi for singing.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: which is better?

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:31 pm

So ... I'll have another beer.

Gorn
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Re: which is better?

Post by Gorn » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:17 pm

The Germanic language system is the best, because it's the easiest and fastest to pronounce. You have only one syllable for each note (except for Ais and Eis, which is a-is and e-is. If you'd pronounce them correctly, they'd sound the same in German [like "eyes" in English]- but, honestly, how often do you need them?). IMO the e.g. Portuguese Fa aumentado or Si bemol is a bit long to pronounce.
The German names are: C, Cis/Des, D, Dis/Es, E, Eis/F, Fis/Ges, G, Gis/As, A, Ais/B, H.
And it allows to use note names for compositions. One of the most famous musical word motifs is B-A-C-H
(see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BACH_motif). Dimitri Schostakowitsch (written in German) used his initials D-Es-C-H for a motif, I wrote a popsong called Cafe Bagdad and I'm sure there are a thousand more motifs in the classical world, because composers like to do hidden stuff like that.

I'm now living in Portugal/Azores for two years and play guitar in a folk music group. It's very funny to see sheets with the chords written ABC but everybody pronounces it Do Re Mi. It took a year or so until I was quick enough to adapt e.g. a spoken "Lá menor, Fa, Ré menor, Do" without using my fingers to count. It's also quite common to write A# instead of Bb, even if the song is in D minor. We all know that A# major or minor does not appear on the circle of fifths. Anyway, the Brazilians seem to like the A#-chord as well.

VasquezBob
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Re: which is better?

Post by VasquezBob » Wed May 01, 2019 2:26 am

wodezhengtuxin wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:59 am
ABCDEFG OR do re mi fa sol la si do
and what about ti instead of si?
I'm with you, as I like "ti" better than "si". And, here's another one: When I hear the singing of solfeggio, I don't hear the "l" in "sol": I hear "so". How about you?

It seems that "ti" and "so" should replace "si" and "sol" when singing.

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RJVB
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Re: which is better?

Post by RJVB » Tue May 21, 2019 6:50 pm

Having done all my training in the Netherlands I'm much more intimately accustomed to ABCetc (which I do not think of as the German language system O:-)) and can get around much quicker in it than with the DOREMIetc approach that always has me thinking.

Part of that is undoubtedly due to the fact that there is no logical order in DOREMIetc which makes it a lot easier (IMHO) to think in terms of relations and distances among notes. As such I never understood the point in introducing an additional letter ('H'; I always forget what note it stands for).
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guitarrista
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Re: which is better?

Post by guitarrista » Tue May 21, 2019 7:07 pm

wodezhengtuxin wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:59 am
and what about ti instead of si?
If you are in a a country using the Latin alphabet and /or the ABC system, you have to use "ti" in order to not confuse people - if you use "si", it is not clear if you meant "C" or "si" when you pronounce it.
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Tonit
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Re: which is better?

Post by Tonit » Tue May 21, 2019 8:22 pm

Gorn wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:17 pm
The Germanic language system is the best, because it's the easiest and fastest to pronounce.
Yeah right.

Look what we got:

For key signatures: Japanese: イ、ロ、ハ、ニ、ホ、ヘ、ト
plus prefixes 変 (b keys) and 嬰 (# keys) and
suffixes 長調 (major keys) and 短調 (minor keys)
(e.g. F# minor key = 嬰ヘ短調)

For chords: American: A, B, C, D, E, F, G

For melodies: quasi-Italian: Do, Le (not Re), Mi, Fa, So (not sol), La, Shi (not si or ti).

BTW I prefer Italian.

Cheers,

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RJVB
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Re: which is better?

Post by RJVB » Tue May 21, 2019 9:17 pm

Tonit wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:22 pm
For chords: American: A, B, C, D, E, F, G
As American as Santa and Halloween? ;)
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Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

Tonit
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Re: which is better?

Post by Tonit » Tue May 21, 2019 9:34 pm

RJVB wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:17 pm
Tonit wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:22 pm
For chords: American: A, B, C, D, E, F, G
As American as Santa and Halloween? ;)
We pronounce them in English, and not in German or else.
Actually I don't know how they exactly came across the ocean. Probably with the Beatles?, so it might be GB in terms of language code. I don't know.

BTW in flamenco Em is "Mi Minor" that moves around with a capo. A very fresh perspective.

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RJVB
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Re: which is better?

Post by RJVB » Tue May 21, 2019 9:57 pm

Sorry, I didn't realise you meant American English (IIRC there are at least as many Americans who's native language is Spanish (pardon, Castillano) so a little bit of explicitification can't hurt ;)
Tonit wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:34 pm
Actually I don't know how they exactly came across the ocean. Probably with the Beatles?
I'm guessing probably a bit before that. What did the likes of Copland and Gershwin and any number of earlier/lesser known American composers and their editors use?

The Wikipedia article on solfège (in the Note Names section) could be taken to suggest that the use of letters might be Germanic in origin.
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Tonit
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Re: which is better?

Post by Tonit » Tue May 21, 2019 10:45 pm

RJVB wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:57 pm
The Wikipedia article on solfège (in the Note Names section) could be taken to suggest that the use of letters might be Germanic in origin.
What I meant was that we read the chord symbol systems invented and being used by arrangers of jazz big bands.

However, we did not have that in real time for sure. It's much later, and probably we had to wait until Toshiko Akiyosi or Sadao Watanabe coming back from the US after their studies before the correct authentic chord symbol system spread nationwide.

The history of Western music in Japan is not long, starting from mid 19th century, when Satsuma fought against England to see their sea burials with some trumpets, or father Nikolai of Russia came with the choir of Orthodox christianity.

BTW German systems are partially used in Japan also.

What I suggested is what is taught in elementary/middle/high schools.

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