What Are We Missing In America?

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
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Lawler
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by Lawler » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:46 am

ddray wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:56 pm
I don't think the point was trying to propose a replacement for "American", but pointing out that it's a little lopsided in that it refers only to US citizens through very long usage. There is something exclusionary about it, when you think it over...
Yes to that.

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Tom Poore
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Location: South Euclid, Ohio, USA

Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by Tom Poore » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:28 am

Since we’re still propping up this debate, here’s my take.

The current population of the United States is, give or take, 327.2 million. So whenever I hear a statement that begins with “Americans are,” I know I’m about to hear a worthless generalization. And I would say the same about any pat generalization of any nationality.

It’s hard enough to define a single person. To pin one trait on an entire group is pure folly. Chances are, the slur ascribed to “those people” is a foible common to all. History says as much. For example, when syphilis hit Europe in the 16th century, everyone vied to blame someone else. It was called the Bordeaux disease, the French disease, the German disease, the disease of Naples, the Polish disease, and the Spanish disease.

With all the dismal examples offered by history, one would think we’d know better by now. But we don’t. Demonizing the other is in our bones. It’s our original sin. And so it goes, each new generation adding its own horrid take to the historical slag heap.

Decades ago I read an Elie Wiesel quote that stuck with me: “All collective judgments are wrong. Only racists make them.”

It’s irrefutable. To my shame, I haven’t always heeded the wisdom of Wiesel’s maxim. I’m as guilty of collective judgments as anyone. But it’s a standard worth trying to meet, even if we fall short. We’re better for the effort.

I hope this explains my ongoing distaste for this discussion.

Tom Poore
South Euclid, OH
USA

ddray
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by ddray » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:41 am

Tom Poore wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:28 am
Since we’re still propping up this debate, here’s my take.

The current population of the United States is, give or take, 327.2 million. So whenever I hear a statement that begins with “Americans are,” I know I’m about to hear a worthless generalization. And I would say the same about any pat generalization of any nationality.
...
I would certainly agree with that. And then there are some often stark regional differences, let alone the differences among nearly 330 million people. But this is all descending into the forbidden political arena and we'll leave that to cesspools like Twitter.

As far as the arts are concerned and whether they are stagnant or dying here, I don't know. And ultimately I don't know if it's really a national thing at all but just the state of the arts in general, worldwide. As I said, it's more than likely that I'm just uninformed.

musicbyandy
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by musicbyandy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:39 pm

Hotsoup wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:08 pm
I'm confused, what word would you use for American if not American? Yankee doesn't count.
You would use two words: United States, sometimes I say and write United Statesperson.

During the 2019 Women’s World Cup, I heard several commentators use the expression “US players” where other commentators said “the Americans”.

musicbyandy
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by musicbyandy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:51 pm

Tom Poore wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:01 am
Finally, there’s no continent called America. The correct continent names are North America and South America.
It is my understanding that continental and ocean names are not uniform across all languages.

English people have told me that the North and South Pacific are distinctly different oceans. I have met United States people who do not consider the North and South Pacific Oceans to be distinctly different oceans.

I have heard people native to various countries who claim to have been taught that Eurasia is one continent, America is one continent, Greenland is a continent and that Antarctica is not a continent. I believe that some people believe that America is a continent.

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Hotsoup
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Location: Bellingham, WA (USA)

Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by Hotsoup » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:02 pm

musicbyandy wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:39 pm
Hotsoup wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:08 pm
I'm confused, what word would you use for American if not American? Yankee doesn't count.
You would use two words: United States, sometimes I say and write United Statesperson.

During the 2019 Women’s World Cup, I heard several commentators use the expression “US players” where other commentators said “the Americans”.
I don't think United Statesperson has caught on yet. I've never heard it used. US [insert anything] doesn't really answer my question.

musicbyandy
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by musicbyandy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:43 pm

Hotsoup wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:02 pm
musicbyandy wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:39 pm
Hotsoup wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:08 pm
I'm confused, what word would you use for American if not American? Yankee doesn't count.
You would use two words: United States, sometimes I say and write United Statesperson.

During the 2019 Women’s World Cup, I heard several commentators use the expression “US players” where other commentators said “the Americans”.
I don't think United Statesperson has caught on yet. I've never heard it used. US [insert anything] doesn't really answer my question.
Does “United Statesperson” fail to answer your question because United Statesperson is two words rather than one word?

If your question is, “what word would you use for American if not American?”, the only answer I can provide is “United Statesperson” as “United Statesperson” is the only demonym I use for United States. Are you asking me to create an alternative demonym?

musicbyandy
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by musicbyandy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:48 pm

Rognvald wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:59 pm
"So rather than up the ante, let’s agree to drop this line of discussion." Tom Poore

Yes, let's get back to music and away from politics. So, while I'm doing some searches on Tom's suggestions, do any other members have a favorite American guitarist(USA) that they believe is a true artist . . . not just an advanced string plucker? Once you're in the water, it's really not that bad! Playing again . . . Rognvald
If your objective is to avoid replies that discuss the meaning of the word “American” you might consider renaming this topic to, “What are we missing in the United States?” I wager that any topic with the word “American” in the title will attract people who wish to discuss the meaning of the word “American”.

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Hotsoup
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by Hotsoup » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:00 pm

musicbyandy wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:43 pm
Hotsoup wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:02 pm
musicbyandy wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:39 pm


You would use two words: United States, sometimes I say and write United Statesperson.

During the 2019 Women’s World Cup, I heard several commentators use the expression “US players” where other commentators said “the Americans”.
I don't think United Statesperson has caught on yet. I've never heard it used. US [insert anything] doesn't really answer my question.
Does “United Statesperson” fail to answer your question because United Statesperson is two words rather than one word?

If your question is, “what word would you use for American if not American?”, the only answer I can provide is “United Statesperson” as “United Statesperson” is the only demonym I use for United States. Are you asking me to create an alternative demonym?
United Stateperson does answer the question, but I've never heard it used. Do you actually say this regularly instead of American?

musicbyandy
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by musicbyandy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:14 pm

Hotsoup wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:00 pm
musicbyandy wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:43 pm
Hotsoup wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:02 pm
I don't think United Statesperson has caught on yet. I've never heard it used. US [insert anything] doesn't really answer my question.
Does “United Statesperson” fail to answer your question because United Statesperson is two words rather than one word?

If your question is, “what word would you use for American if not American?”, the only answer I can provide is “United Statesperson” as “United Statesperson” is the only demonym I use for United States. Are you asking me to create an alternative demonym?
United Stateperson does answer the question, but I've never heard it used. Do you actually say this regularly instead of American?
Yes.

In 1993, my school had a poster with flags of nations. I searched on the poster for the American flag. Being a person whose name begins with the letter “A”, I took great pride in being a citizen of a nation whose name also begins with the letter “A”. When I discovered that the flag which I sought was presented under the letter “U” I ceased to refer to myself as an “American” in terms of nationality and began referring to myself as a “United Statesmen”. Approximately ten years ago, I switched to “United Statesman” when I considered that I am only one person. Sometime in the past five years I switched to “United Statesperson”.

In 1995, my sister experienced something similar while visiting Colombia and likewise used the term “United Stateswoman”.

Tonit
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by Tonit » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:02 pm

With due respect, for both EU and US wherein I as a Japanese have once resided for years:

Jazz is better in the US, while Classical is better in EU, provided that there are great EU jazz musicians as well as great US classical musicians. This is overall impression considering educational access, concert access, community, audience and everything involved in Jazz/Classical experiences.

Maybe it's like pizza is better in EU, while McD is better in US. I don't see any EU McD better than US ones, just like I didn't see any US pizzeria better than EU ones.

In both EU and US, sushis are not worthy of money, and Chinese restaurants are like a joke, while there are few good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU combined.

musicbyandy
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by musicbyandy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:23 pm

Tonit wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:02 pm
while there are few good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU combined.
How do you determine that there are few good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU combined?

Tonit
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by Tonit » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:44 am

musicbyandy wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:23 pm
Tonit wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:02 pm
while there are few good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU combined.
How do you determine that there are few good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU combined?
Area-wise, roughly the US + EU population (300 mil in EU + 300 mil in US) is less than 1/2 or about 1/3 of that of Asia ( 1 bil in China + 100 mil in Japan + 600 mil in India...).

We have some celeb Asian faces in Jazz/Classical scenes but they are mainly Asian Americans or half-Asians.

Jazz/Classical celeb virtuosi are predominantly US/EU players/musicians.

Today we see many Asian instumentalists in many reputable orchestras, but they are not celebs individually.

Cheers,

musicbyandy
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Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by musicbyandy » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:50 pm

Tonit wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:44 am
musicbyandy wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:23 pm
Tonit wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:02 pm
while there are few good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU combined.
How do you determine that there are few good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU combined?
Area-wise, roughly the US + EU population (300 mil in EU + 300 mil in US) is less than 1/2 or about 1/3 of that of Asia ( 1 bil in China + 100 mil in Japan + 600 mil in India...).
We have some celeb Asian faces in Jazz/Classical scenes but they are mainly Asian Americans or half-Asians.
Jazz/Classical celeb virtuosi are predominantly US/EU players/musicians.
Today we see many Asian instumentalists in many reputable orchestras, but they are not celebs individually.
Cheers,
Thank you.

I think there are many good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU.

Tonit
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 1:44 am

Re: What Are We Missing In America?

Post by Tonit » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:36 pm

musicbyandy wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:50 pm
Tonit wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:44 am
musicbyandy wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:23 pm


How do you determine that there are few good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU combined?
Area-wise, roughly the US + EU population (300 mil in EU + 300 mil in US) is less than 1/2 or about 1/3 of that of Asia ( 1 bil in China + 100 mil in Japan + 600 mil in India...).
We have some celeb Asian faces in Jazz/Classical scenes but they are mainly Asian Americans or half-Asians.
Jazz/Classical celeb virtuosi are predominantly US/EU players/musicians.
Today we see many Asian instumentalists in many reputable orchestras, but they are not celebs individually.
Cheers,
Thank you.

I think there are many good-great musicians coming out of Japan and Asia, given the population by far surpassing that of US and EU.
Thank you we are flattered so much. But we are far behind EU and US.

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