Sorry this is a rant

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
montana
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Sorry this is a rant

Post by montana » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:09 am

I've read several times . .I wish guitar had as much beautiful music to offer as piano . Seriously . Does that mean you have mastered every piece of music in guitar. There are hundreds of guitar pieces that I would love to master. I will never play a fraction of them . So there might as well be 100,000 pieces because I will never play those either .

Wuuthrad
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by Wuuthrad » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:19 am

Probably a typical response from any guitarist, but I think guitar has more!
"Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." -Jean Sibelius

Gary Macleod
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by Gary Macleod » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:25 am

Doesn’t matter, as guitarists we can just play piano repertoire too. Think about all the Albéniz and Granados, the Tarrega arrangements of Chopin , and all the Scarlatti sonatas that are the staple of the guitar repertoire.

ddray
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by ddray » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:55 am

Gary Macleod wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:25 am
Doesn’t matter, as guitarists we can just play piano repertoire too. Think about all the Albéniz and Granados, the Tarrega arrangements of Chopin , and all the Scarlatti sonatas that are the staple of the guitar repertoire.
Well, at least play what is within the guitar's range and capability. There's no crime in that. Ultimately though a piano's a piano and a guitar's a guitar. No, the guitar repertoire does not equal the piano's by any stretch of the imagination. But the satisfaction that comes from having a more direct influence on tone production, with more expressive capabilities, can offer compensation.
Last edited by ddray on Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gary Macleod
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by Gary Macleod » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:04 am

That’s very true.

RobMacKillop
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:08 am

The piano is a percussion instrument...

DerekB
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by DerekB » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:21 am

Of course the guitar repertoire doesn't compare to that of the piano but it is not too bad compared to other instruments. The real problem is that a lot of it is by composers who are completely unknown to the general public. The music of Moreno Torroba, Castelnuovo Tedesco or even Villa Lobos does not get a lot of exposure elsewhere and as for Sor, Giuliani......
I've suffered for my music. Now it's your turn... - Seasick Steve

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MessyTendon
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by MessyTendon » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:35 am

Start composing beautiful music...life is short.

gitgeezer
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by gitgeezer » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:25 pm

We must face a few relevant facts:
- the piano is more popular that the classical guitar
- its popularity generates more money
- the combination of popularity and money attracts more composers
- the combination of popularity, money, and compositions attracts more students to master the piano
- many of those who master the piano become composers themselves or commission compositions
- all of which makes the piano yet more popular and generates yet more compositions, etc. etc.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:46 pm

gitgeezer wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:25 pm
We must face a few relevant facts:
- the piano is more popular that the classical guitar
- its popularity generates more money
- the combination of popularity and money attracts more composers
- the combination of popularity, money, and compositions attracts more students to master the piano
- many of those who master the piano become composers themselves or commission compositions
- all of which makes the piano yet more popular and generates yet more compositions, etc. etc.

I don't think the amount of income generated by the piano (is anyone counting?) has any bearing at all on the extraordinary repertoire that instrument enjoys, what an odd idea. The piano has attracted so many wonderful composers and compositions for one simple reason, that being its unequaled musical possibilities.

ddray
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by ddray » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:49 pm

gitgeezer wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:25 pm
We must face a few relevant facts:
- the piano is more popular that the classical guitar
- its popularity generates more money
- the combination of popularity and money attracts more composers
- the combination of popularity, money, and compositions attracts more students to master the piano
- many of those who master the piano become composers themselves or commission compositions
- all of which makes the piano yet more popular and generates yet more compositions, etc. etc.
There's a reason for that popularity in the first place though. The keyboard instruments are popular because they have a vast repertoire; they have a vast repertoire because they are harmonically rich and more "self-sufficient". The Well Tempered Clavier and Beethoven's sonatas are still going to be there regardless of how much money "piano culture" takes in today.
DerekB wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:21 am
Of course the guitar repertoire doesn't compare to that of the piano but it is not too bad compared to other instruments. The real problem is that a lot of it is by composers who are completely unknown to the general public. The music of Moreno Torroba, Castelnuovo Tedesco or even Villa Lobos does not get a lot of exposure elsewhere and as for Sor, Giuliani......
I think that's a good point. I can't think of another non-keyboard instrument that has a solo repertoire as *extensive* as that of the guitar. And after all comparing the guitar to the piano is apples and bananas.

Gorn
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by Gorn » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:57 pm

gitgeezer wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:25 pm
We must face a few relevant facts:
- the piano is more popular that the classical guitar
- its popularity generates more money
- the combination of popularity and money attracts more composers
- the combination of popularity, money, and compositions attracts more students to master the piano
- many of those who master the piano become composers themselves or commission compositions
- all of which makes the piano yet more popular and generates yet more compositions, etc. etc.
Not to forget:
- the piano is LOUDER than a guitar, that's why it is more suitable for playing for a larger audience. The 19th century didn't know PA systems at all and I doubt that there was proper guitar amplification before the 60s or 70s.
- the piano is more representative than a guitar. What we now call "classical music" was originally performed among aristocrats and wealthy citizens, only. A guitar doesn't make as much impression as a highly ornamented cembalo or a grand piano for the price of a one family house.

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segobreawill
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by segobreawill » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:32 pm

montana wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:09 am
I've read several times . .I wish guitar had as much beautiful music to offer as piano . Seriously . Does that mean you have mastered every piece of music in guitar.
I'm so glad you brought this one up because it's been nagging the hell out of me for a while now! I too have read those posts where people give reasons for having stopped playing the guitar, and when I read that one of those reasons was because there just wasn't any really good music written for it, I just fall off my chair! It's as if to say that it's not worthwhile to put in all that work into the CG because none of the great composers such as Mozart or Beethoven for example, ever wrote for it. Segovia wasted his time then, and Bream as well? Should we warn Williams, Russell and Barrueco that perhaps they should make the switch over to the violin or piano since it has more "beautiful" music to offer?

As you did, I also ask if these people have mastered all the available guitar-specific music that's available? I also ask about all those wonderful transcriptions that are out there - have they mastered these as well? Of course there are those crybabies who will wag their finger at me saying, "No, no. You cannot ask that - it's not fair!"

Well then, let me ask this question instead: Did you love the guitar enough to begin with in the first place when you came to it, because if not, then why did you start studying the classical guitar, please? When I started studying the guitar it was because I loved the sound it produced - that's right: The sound was beautiful and that's what enchanted me about the classical guitar. Period. When I stopped playing guitar for all those years, it was because of personal issues, not whether or not Brahms composed for the guitar.

+1 for montana

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Anthony Campanella
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by Anthony Campanella » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:56 pm

The piano repertoire and execution are extremely impressive but its the most complex manual mechanical machine ever created and sounds like it

ddray
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Re: Sorry this is a rant

Post by ddray » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:13 pm

Gorn wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:57 pm
...
- the piano is more representative than a guitar. What we now call "classical music" was originally performed among aristocrats and wealthy citizens, only. A guitar doesn't make as much impression as a highly ornamented cembalo or a grand piano for the price of a one family house.
That's not quite accurate, unless by "wealthy" you mean anyone living above bare subsistence level. Bach's "Clavier-Übung" series and WTC were published for musicians of whatever class, mainly of course among the "bourgeoisie"...but also with fellow professional musicians in mind. The same could be said of Beethoven's sonatas. Also, Bach composed his cantatas to be heard by a church congregation, who couldn't have all been wealthy aristos.

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