Chopin Pronunciation

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:32 pm

Rick Beauregard wrote:As I’ve told all my dates over the years, it means “good looking.”
Hey Rick ... I may have been grasping at straws but I'm upset that you didn't notice my earlier pun ... or perhaps you wisely ignored it.

VasquezBob
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by VasquezBob » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:16 pm

Rick Beauregard wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:55 pm
There can be wide varieties but when one says “BEW ree guard” ( just like bureau, right?)...I cringe.

BO ray gaard
soft d and subtly rolled r’s

As I’ve told all my dates over the years, it means “good looking.”

I love QUA san. Makes me smile. I also love how some English accents sound like Daffy Duck or Elmer Fud.

Croissants, Ganz Blueberry Jam and coffee would be nice for our next Blaine Guitar Circle.
Thanks, Good Looking, now I know... a soft "d" and subtly rolled "r's"; and, two QUA-sans, please. :bye:

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Hotsoup
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Hotsoup » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:21 pm

musicbyandy wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:21 pm
I'm curious to know of this classical guitar podcast, I would like to listen.
I sometimes pronounce foreign words with a foreign accent.
I wager that I am not in complete agreement with all other people as to which words are foreign to English and which words are not foreign to English.
I think I sometimes have trouble deciding if I should pronounce foreign words and proper nouns with a foreign accent.
I doubt that you are the only person bothered by hearing non-English words in the accent of the word's language.
I believe it was All Strings Considered. It was a very good podcast in my opinion, I just had that gripe. It felt unnatural, but maybe that's on me.

I lived in France and Quebec for a time, and I don't remember a single francophone bothering to pronounce my very Anglo-Saxon family name with an anglophone's accent. Should I have corrected them? I'm not sure that was my place, so I never did. It's funny though because I remember having a conversation with a Frenchman and the city Detroit came up. He pronounced it Day-traw, and I had no idea what he was talking about. Maybe to be more clear he SHOULD have pronounced it in an English fashion. I don't know. We laughed at each of our pronunciations, so it's fine I guess.

Croissant is maybe a bad example because it might have a different pronunciation in other English-speaking countries. It came to mind because I remember laughing at a celebrity chef (Todd English or Bobby Flay, I think?) who were touring a French bakery and trying their damnedest to pronounce the word with an accent each time. It was odd.

musicbyandy
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by musicbyandy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:27 pm

Hotsoup wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:21 pm
musicbyandy wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:21 pm
I'm curious to know of this classical guitar podcast, I would like to listen.
I sometimes pronounce foreign words with a foreign accent.
I wager that I am not in complete agreement with all other people as to which words are foreign to English and which words are not foreign to English.
I think I sometimes have trouble deciding if I should pronounce foreign words and proper nouns with a foreign accent.
I doubt that you are the only person bothered by hearing non-English words in the accent of the word's language.
I believe it was All Strings Considered. It was a very good podcast in my opinion, I just had that gripe. It felt unnatural, but maybe that's on me.

I lived in France and Quebec for a time, and I don't remember a single francophone bothering to pronounce my very Anglo-Saxon family name with an Anglophone's accent. Should I have corrected them? I'm not sure that was my place, and I never did. It's funny though because I remember having a conversation with a Frenchman and the city Detroit came up. He pronounced it Day-traw, and I had no idea what he was talking about. Maybe to be more clear he SHOULD have pronounced it in an English fashion. I don't know. We laughed at each of our pronunciations, so it's fine I guess.

Croissant is maybe a bad example because it might have a different pronunciation in other English-speaking countries. It came to mind because I remember laughing at a celebrity chef (Todd English or Bobby Flay, I think?) who were touring a French bakery and trying their damnedest to pronounce the word with an accent each time. It was odd.
I believe it was All Strings Considered. Thank you!
Should I have corrected them? I don't know if you should have corrected them, I guess whether you should or shouldn't have corrected them would have depended on your objectives for interacting with those people. My interpretation of what you wrote is that correcting them would not have helped you meet any of your objectives.

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Hotsoup
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Hotsoup » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:41 pm

musicbyandy wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:27 pm
Should I have corrected them? I don't know if you should have corrected them, I guess whether you should or shouldn't have corrected them would have depended on your objectives for interacting with those people. My interpretation of what you wrote is that correcting them would not have helped you meet any of your objectives.
So what do you think about their objectives? Should they have made an effort to pronounce my name differently? I'm not asking rhetorical questions in these posts. Obviously I am a dumb and have trouble navigating this.

musicbyandy
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by musicbyandy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:09 pm

Hotsoup wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:41 pm
musicbyandy wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:27 pm
Should I have corrected them? I don't know if you should have corrected them, I guess whether you should or shouldn't have corrected them would have depended on your objectives for interacting with those people. My interpretation of what you wrote is that correcting them would not have helped you meet any of your objectives.
So what do you think about their objectives? Should they have made an effort to pronounce my name differently? I'm not asking rhetorical questions in these posts. Obviously I am a dumb and have trouble navigating this.
I don't know what their objectives were.
I don't know if they should have made an effort to pronounce your name differently.
If you are dumb, it is not obvious to me.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:16 pm

Hotsoup wrote:Should they have made an effort to pronounce my name differently?
Surely it's generally considered polite to attempt to pronounce a person's name as they do themselves. I have two friends named Vincent. One is English, one French; their names are not homophones.

Another aspect is clear communication as in your Detroit example. However, consideration may not always travel in both directions - I have been asked on more than one occasion to please speak French because, "L'anglais me fait mal à la gorge."

Odd thing - in my experience no one minds being corrected by a native, but try correcting a fellow English speaker's French and you'll be considered a know-it-all, pompous, pretentious and worse.

There are some peculiarities in English. Visit the capital of France and you're heading for "parriss". Indulge in a night on the town in that same city and you're experiencing gay "parree".

Italian fares badly too - my pet hate is the Essexian mangling of lasagne ... luhsaarnya.
musicbyandy wrote:I don't know if they should have made an effort to pronounce your name differently.
Are you A.I. or a real person?

musicbyandy
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by musicbyandy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:27 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:16 pm
Hotsoup wrote:Should they have made an effort to pronounce my name differently?
Surely it's generally considered polite to attempt to pronounce a person's name as they do themselves. I have two friends named Vincent. One is English, one French; their names are not homophones.

Another aspect is clear communication as in your Detroit example. However, consideration may not always travel in both directions - I have been asked on more than one occasion to please speak French because, "L'anglais me fait mal à la gorge."

Odd thing - in my experience no one minds being corrected by a native, but try correcting a fellow English speaker's French and you'll be considered a know-it-all, pompous, pretentious and worse.

There are some peculiarities in English. Visit the capital of France and you're heading for "parriss". Indulge in a night on the town in that same city and you're experiencing gay "parree".

Italian fares badly too - my pet hate is the Essexian mangling of lasagne ... luhsaarnya.
musicbyandy wrote:I don't know if they should have made an effort to pronounce your name differently.
Are you A.I. or a real person?
Are you A.I. or a real person? I think I am a real person.

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Hotsoup
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Hotsoup » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:28 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:16 pm
Hotsoup wrote:Should they have made an effort to pronounce my name differently?
Surely it's generally considered polite to attempt to pronounce a person's name as they do themselves. I have two friends named Vincent. One is English, one French; their names are not homophones.

Another aspect is clear communication as in your Detroit example. However, consideration may not always travel in both directions - I have been asked on more than one occasion to please speak French because, "L'anglais me fait mal à la gorge."

Odd thing - in my experience no one minds being corrected by a native, but try correcting a fellow English speaker's French and you'll be considered a know-it-all, pompous, pretentious and worse.

There are some peculiarities in English. Visit the capital of France and you're heading for "parriss". Indulge in a night on the town in that same city and you're experiencing gay "parree".

Italian fares badly too - my pet hate is the Essexian mangling of lasagne ... luhsaarnya.
Thanks Mark, your Vincent example is interesting to me. I work with many Spanish speakers and am aware when I pronounce Estevan in my own native accent and not theirs. Maybe I'm being rude.

I'm not sure I could tolerate lasagna with an 'r' either.

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Hotsoup
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Hotsoup » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:30 pm

musicbyandy wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:27 pm
Are you A.I. or a real person? I think I am a real person.
That's EXACTLY what an AI would say!

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:34 pm

Hotsoup wrote:I'm not sure I could tolerate lasagna with an 'r' either.
Or indeed with an "e". Did I spell it incorrectly? Touché!
musicbyandy wrote:Are you A.I. or a real person? I think I am a real person.
I am pleased that you think that you are a real person.

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Rick Beauregard » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:50 pm

A real person must not have been reading the audio book for the interesting “Don Andres and Paquita: The life of Andres Segovia in Montevideo”. The reader kept talking of some place called “Monty Video”. It was jarring and annoying. Seems an actor being paid to voice-over a book should take the time to research the proper pronunciation of the geographic setting for the book. Or the publisher needs to reconsider going with the lowest bidder.
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lagartija
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by lagartija » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:36 pm

I remember speaking to a colleague in Mexico and asking if he had ever traveled to the US. Yes, he replied, to Tay-chas [ch as in the Scottish word loch, or ch as in Yiddish chutzpah]. It took me three times repeating it to myself before I realized he meant Texas. :lol:
Oh! Texas! But I am sure that another colleague who was Nahuatl, could barely understand me when I pronounced Teotihuacan! Iztaccíhuatl Was even more of a challenge. We all do the best we can to be understood. That is the purpose of language. If you wait until you have pronunciation perfect, you will never speak a word.
As adults, we understand that the sounds in another language can be difficult for non native speakers and try our best to understand the thought they are trying to convey, rather than taking offense for what was the best they could manage.
When the sun shines, bask.
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Classical Guitar forever!

DaveLloyd
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by DaveLloyd » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:47 pm

Just to be sure you all know your unio . . . I mean onions! — (onions) on·​ion | \ ˈən-yən



. . . and she has more!

Synchronicity! Found this purely by coincidence moments after reading this thread.

ETA. She definitively resolves the croissant issue — or not!

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Chopin Pronunciation

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:22 pm

DaveLloyd wrote:She definitively resolves the croissant issue — or not!
I confess that I smiled at the prismonunciation of wejterbul and "somebody from the cheese family".

Shouldn't laugh really but the total confidence exuded through so many errors of both fact and articulation whilst supposedly teaching others is bound to invite criticism.

Reminds me of some guitar teaching.

I wonder how a similar lesson from an English teacher of Hindi or Bengali sounds?

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