Too many words

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
VasquezBob
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Too many words

Post by VasquezBob » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:54 pm

Have you ever felt like there's just too many words to explain musical concepts? I started researching the subject of "cadences" and came across four types, viz., Authentic, Plagal, Half and Deceptive. Wow, this might be easy, just four! Then, I came across Interrupted, Elided, Feminine, Radical, Lydian, Masculine, Picardie; and, to my surprise, there also is a "Surprise Cadence". Whew, in all, I've come up with over 30 words that modify what a cadence is all about. Admittedly, many refer to the same type of cadence, e.g., Plagal, Church and Amen; to which I said "Amen", it's less than 30.

So, I thought that a good dissertation would be to consolidate all these descriptive words to a manageable number; any takers? Oh, I just thought of a new possible type of cadence... a "crab cadence". :desole:

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Mike Atkinson
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Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Too many words

Post by Mike Atkinson » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:05 pm

This will never happen.

When a student is unable to understand and internalize a lesson, it is not the student's fault.
A teacher can choose to beat the answer into the student.

Or a teacher can find a different way to express the lesson, which will bring meaning to the student, and allow comprehension and learning.

Because of this, there will always be different ways to describe the same thing (plagal cadence / amen cadence).

The more important question is ...

Why does this bother you so much? Why must others accept the universe as seen through your eyes, or heard through your ears?
2018 Cordoba Esteso Cedar

Tonit
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Re: Too many words

Post by Tonit » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:10 pm

Hi again,

It's like remembering all the names in your class. It is tricky in the beginning and I forget as soon as the next semester.

But when you bump into any of them, you remember all of them by their faces (or how they sound like).

So it is a OK for me to see one of the cadences in a tune and go "O hey..." but cannot remember the name of it while playing through it, and start checking through my friends list on fb or otherwise.

VasquezBob
Posts: 204
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Re: Too many words

Post by VasquezBob » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:35 am

Mike Atkinson wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:05 pm
This will never happen.

When a student is unable to understand and internalize a lesson, it is not the student's fault.
A teacher can choose to beat the answer into the student.

Or a teacher can find a different way to express the lesson, which will bring meaning to the student, and allow comprehension and learning.

Because of this, there will always be different ways to describe the same thing (plagal cadence / amen cadence).

The more important question is ...

Why does this bother you so much? Why must others accept the universe as seen through your eyes, or heard through your ears?
My posting was just an observation and certainly not a demand that others accept my view. Actually, I sort of liked the "crab cadence". :lol:

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Christopher Freitag
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Re: Too many words

Post by Christopher Freitag » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:01 am

There are 50 Eskimo words for snow. We musicians don’t have it that bad. And, FWIW, I’ve never seen Picardie (or Picardy) described as a type of cadence. It refers to raising the third by a half step, turning what would have been a minor mode triad to major mode. If you can cite a source I’d be interested to follow up on that.
Chris Freitag

2013 German Vasquez Rubio Concert Special "Bernardi"; German spruce/Brazilian rosewood
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VasquezBob
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Re: TOO MANY WORDS

Post by VasquezBob » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:58 am

Christopher Freitag wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:01 am
There are 50 Eskimo words for snow. We musicians don’t have it that bad. And, FWIW, I’ve never seen Picardie (or Picardy) described as a type of cadence. It refers to raising the third by a half step, turning what would have been a minor mode triad to major mode. If you can cite a source I’d be interested to follow up on that.
Hi Christopher, My source for that reference is weak but, I'll quote you what it indicates. Source: "Cadence Music - Wikipedia". "A Picardy cadence is a harmonic device that originated in Western music in the Renaissance era. It refers to the use of a major chord of the tonic at the end of a musical section that is either modal or in a minor key." Thanks for the inquiry, Bob

musicbyandy
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Re: Too many words

Post by musicbyandy » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:10 am

Mike Atkinson wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:05 pm
Why must others accept the universe as seen through your eyes, or heard through your ears?
I don’t think others must accept the universe through Vasquezbob's eyes, or hear through Vasquezbob's ears. I think it might be an enjoyable experience to accept the universe through Vazquesbob's eyes, or hear through Vasquezbob's ears, or at the very least a new and potentially educational experience.

I didn’t get the sense that Vasquezbob was bothered but rather inspired to promote a dissertation.

"Too many words" reminds me of how my father might say, "Too much grass" with the excitement of doing impending yard work and an opportunity to be outside.
Last edited by musicbyandy on Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:43 pm, edited 5 times in total.

musicbyandy
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Re: Too many words

Post by musicbyandy » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:11 am

Christopher Freitag wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:01 am
There are 50 Eskimo words for snow. We musicians don’t have it that bad. And, FWIW, I’ve never seen Picardie (or Picardy) described as a type of cadence. It refers to raising the third by a half step, turning what would have been a minor mode triad to major mode. If you can cite a source I’d be interested to follow up on that.
I’ve heard a person say Picardy cadence.

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Mike Atkinson
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Re: Too many words

Post by Mike Atkinson » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:36 pm

musicbyandy wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:10 am
I don’t think others must accept the universe through Vasquezbob's eyes, or hear through Vasquezbob's ears. I think it might be an enjoyable experience to accept the universe through Vazquesbob's eyes, or hear through Vasquezbob's ears, or at the very least a new and potentially educationally experience.
Although it has now been corrected, the original title of this thread was posted in all capital letters. In internet etiquette, this is the equivalent of yelling. The original poster screaming out to the universe that there are too many words. That is what prompted that last sentence.

Some folks like 'turn-by-turn' directions when driving, others are fine knowing the destination and being able to meander to it. Differences are fine ... but the post, to me, seemed to indicate there is only one correct adjective for the noun cadence.
2018 Cordoba Esteso Cedar

musicbyandy
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Re: Too many words

Post by musicbyandy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm

Mike Atkinson wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:36 pm
musicbyandy wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:10 am
I don’t think others must accept the universe through Vasquezbob's eyes, or hear through Vasquezbob's ears. I think it might be an enjoyable experience to accept the universe through Vazquesbob's eyes, or hear through Vasquezbob's ears, or at the very least a new and potentially educationally experience.
Although it has now been corrected, the original title of this thread was posted in all capital letters. In internet etiquette, this is the equivalent of yelling. The original poster screaming out to the universe that there are too many words. That is what prompted that last sentence.

Some folks like 'turn-by-turn' directions when driving, others are fine knowing the destination and being able to meander to it. Differences are fine ... but the post, to me, seemed to indicate there is only one correct adjective for the noun cadence.
Cool. I hope the original poster wasn't indicating that there is only one correct adjective for the noun cadence.

VasquezBob
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Re: Too many words

Post by VasquezBob » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:08 pm

It was just an observation by someone that is learning about music and about classical guitar; that's it. More than 3 adjectives describing the same cadence seemed a bit much but, I guess not.

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