New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
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petermc61
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by petermc61 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:23 pm

petermc61 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:14 am
petermc61 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:33 am
I ended up taking off the normal tension sugar string off my Stenzel (because of the bad fret buzz) and replaced it with a spare normal tension supernylgut Alabastro first string. The buzz is totally gone, but also is some of the beauty of the sugar top string.

I am still contemplating trying a sugar high tension top string. Mimmo, can you tell me please how the tension of the normal Alabastro first string compares to the superior/high tension on the sugar set?

Thanks
Peter
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Bumped again Mimmo.

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RJVB
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by RJVB » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:56 pm

This has been posted on the forum before:
https://aquilacorde.com/en/tabella-diam ... -classica/
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

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RJVB
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by RJVB » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:20 pm

A few more quick observations:

- the high E still isn't very stable, since last Monday night (I did stretch it at the 12th fret)
- my earlier remark that there are no squeaks was sadly premature. They appeared after a day or 2, somewhat different than in the Alchemia strings but still audible as a bit of a whistling artefact at about 1.5mm . It gets worse when I don't pluck perpendicularly, and is attenuated by wetting the string with some saliva. That's more practical than putting on hand cream in the middle of a performance or session but still not ideal.
- it has a not unpleasant metallic sound character but may also sounds a little thin because of that.
- the G is only a bit brighter than the regular Rubino and I think it sounds more open higher on on the fretboard. It's on since wednesday evening and I haven't yet heard any squeaking.
- I just put on the B too; first impression is that it has a bit of a metallic character too, but not (yet) perfectly in between the G and E. We'll see if the balance across the 3 strings improves in a couple of days.

Right now I find that the E stands out a bit too much. One thing I appreciate in the standard Rubinos (and Magnificos) is that I don't feel that I have to hold back when I need to play the open E string in repertoire that isn't usually played on steel strings. I'm getting the feeling that the string could be just a bit thicker.
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

Bowie.
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by Bowie. » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:48 pm

Mimmo2us wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:55 pm
Ps. Ciao Bowie, i am curios to see if even this time the string breaks :)
Mimmo, I just wanted to give you some initial feedback. I got the experiential Sugar E strings. Strung one up and I was intentionally not careful with it because I wanted to give it a real test. It held up just fine! Also, I think this version may have other positive benefits as well but I need to test it more. So far, it has slightly less squeak. And, I think the tone is slightly better but I will have to wait until it settles in to know for sure.

I'm going to put a Sugar set with an experimental E on another guitar this weekend and see how that goes. I'll give you a full report after that but things are looking good so far. The experimental might be a winner.

Mimmo2us
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by Mimmo2us » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:25 pm

Thanks Bowie, this version is what will replace all the sugar 1st. I have already done further tests but yours was the most interesting because you had breakages.
waiting again from you for the final rensponse :D
Ciao
mimmo
Last edited by Mimmo2us on Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

es335
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by es335 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:40 pm

Another initial feedback with a bit of delay due to holidays and strange transport logistics of FedEx.

Mimmo kindly supplied experimental e strings in two batches (A, B) for trial purposes. The first and thinnest e (0.670 mm) of batch A was installed utilizing a Diamond string tie today and didn’t break well after 30 min it was brought up to pitch and a bit of playing. So for the time being everything looks very promising! :D

The trial e is installed on a different guitar replacing an EJ43 top string of a combined d'Addario/Hannabach Nylon set which gives an interesting view on the tonal differences to Nylon strings. D’Addario trebles are at least praised for their good intonation and homogeneity which is perceptible. But in direct comparison to the pure sound of the sugar e their harmonic content sounds audible more dissonant at least in some positions. I’m again deeply impressed by the sound of the sugar e string and hope they will become a reliable and successful product.

BTW squeaking of this trial e is significantly reduced compared to the set where the top e string broke though not eliminated.

Provided the top e will "survive" the next two days, the rest of the sugar set will be installed on this guitar.

epcritmo
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by epcritmo » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:01 pm

I think these Sugar strings have real potential. Just some more tweaks here and there, improving step by step. I still haven't bought any but would love to know how they sound.

I have tried the experimental sugar granato strings and noticed that the high E vibrated so much that it gave some buzz in places, and more so when tuned down to D (in alternative tunings). In this regard, how does this new experimental sugar high E compare to the previous sugar high E? From this thread I'm no longer sure in what direction the experiments are going, is it addressing the breakages, squeaks? All very interesting.
Camps Primera Negra A, Cordoba Mini M
Music I play: Acoustic blues and folk, Bert Jansch, John Fahey, Skip James, etc
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RJVB
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by RJVB » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:13 pm

I am not seeing that in the experimental sugar Rubino E (which I presume must be very similar to the sugar Granato string). It does feel a bit less tense than the regular Rubino E but that can be an illusion due to its higher elasticity.
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

es335
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by es335 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:38 pm

Apologies for the confusion but mine are just experimental in a sense that the breakage issue of the top e had been addressed, particularly in combination with Diamond string ties. So actually they are modified sugar e strings.

Buzzes were no issue so far on at least two of my guitars. Higher elasticity describes exactly my tactile impression of the sugar trebles and their tone is so pure and full bodied over the entire length which is amazing!

epcritmo
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by epcritmo » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:01 pm

Yes, to my perception, the sugar strings are very elastic and feel very comfortable despite the tension. It is this extra elasticity that I think was allowing the string to vibrate wider than the stiffer Rubino strings. Tuning down to D is important for me as I play many songs in other tunings, so I'd need a string that could do that well. If the experimental sugar high e string has been made harder to avoid breakages, maybe this has reduced slightly its elasticity (?).

Would love to try a new set but I'm unsure where I can find sets that are not directly from Aquila (postage from there is very expensive).
Camps Primera Negra A, Cordoba Mini M
Music I play: Acoustic blues and folk, Bert Jansch, John Fahey, Skip James, etc
https://www.youtube.com/user/sirwhale28/videos

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RJVB
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by RJVB » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:25 pm

What are the action and scale length on your guitar? The action on mine isn't very high AFAIK and scale length relatively short (635mm) but no buzzing on the high E (the low E is a different matter alltogether :)).
Interestingly I had a buzz on the low frets of the G string with a regular Rubino string, but not with this new one.
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

epcritmo
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by epcritmo » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:29 pm

Typical 650mm scale with High e action at 12th fret being 2.9mm.

Of course, the sugar granato strings are not the same as the purely sugar strings, but I assume they are similar.
Camps Primera Negra A, Cordoba Mini M
Music I play: Acoustic blues and folk, Bert Jansch, John Fahey, Skip James, etc
https://www.youtube.com/user/sirwhale28/videos

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RJVB
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by RJVB » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:24 pm

I don't have anything at hand to measure this precisely, but on my guitar it looks more like 4mm at the 12th fret (and 2 at the nut). The official value was 2.5mm btw, but that was before increased the neck relief.
Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Formerly: Brian Cohen baroque violin (London, 1985), Nadegini modern violin (Paris, 1924)

Bowie.
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by Bowie. » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:17 am

I think the new E for the Sugars is a definite improvement and I'm glad Mimmo decided to make the change. One thing I noticed after the first day with the old Sugar E is that it got a little "lost" in terms of volume. I had to dig into it harder to get the same kind of volume that I'm used to getting in a carbon E. It was beginning to frustrate me. After 3 days, the new E still has nice volume and a "punch" that the other didn't have. It's easier to get a wide range of voices from this E. It's not a huge difference but it's just the thing I needed to hear to make these trebles perfect.

Mimmo2us
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Re: New Aquila "Sugar" strings

Post by Mimmo2us » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:10 am

Super, thanks for your contribute dudes. Bowie, you tryed the sample A and it is ok. If the string is ok it is not strictly necessary to test even the sample B
so:
1) yes, I worked to eliminate some minor situation of brekage (expecially when there are some small devices to tie the strings at the bridge or when some saddles are too high producing sharp edges. Same problem (a few berakages) of charango 1st. Now It seem that the problem is fixed.

2) squeack: this is a damn thing; we know that over the time it became less but not totally. In statistic, 70 % of players has no problem; 20% yes but after a week or so on no problem; 10% the problem reduce but still exist. I am working for this 10% (lol)
The chemist gave me two products: I have tested one and I must admit that it reduce the squeack but I cannot tell how much and if it is enougth.
RJVB. i remember that you are one of those that has the squeack problem: wound you to give a try on a few? Some other joint us for this test? (I am speaking of just the 1st, not the whole set)
I am waiting a second ingredient for further tests.
If I am able to solve the last problem -the squeack- we have great strings available
Mimmo

Ps. always remember that the Sugar employ a couple of days before to poduce the best performance. Just at the installation is not at the best.

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