Right hand technique: a new perspective

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Ortega
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:49 pm

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by Ortega » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:40 pm

No changes here; there never will be again, because the discovery is complete and has been since June 24th, 2019.

Far better presentation here:


Ortega
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:49 pm

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by Ortega » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:41 pm

At 8:45am central time US, yesterday, 8-2-19, I discovered that the requisite stabilizing pressure at the large knuckle actually comes from gravity, when we allow the weight of the arm/ hand to naturally and in fact passively apply the requisite pressure at the large knuckle, during the pluck itself.

We must add a measured degree of "weight" to the finger when placed on its string. Said weight or pressure results from allowing the arm/ hand to relent to gravity to the appropriate degree, given the technical scenario at hand (pun intended).

 Only the tip joint is actually executing active work, at any time, just as I was proposing earlier in the year!

I'm absolutely keeping the 2 larger joints relaxed at all times, using the tip joint to do everything including bringing the finger to its string (this is perhaps the most radical and all important parameter of the discovery).

I didn't realize that this required pressure at the large knuckle was actually coming from gravity itself, or that it could and in fact must! For a time, I TOO fell under the spell the very neurological illusion that I have originally identified.

This means that my original discovery of September 9th 2017 at 10:45 a.m. central time US, as further refined by the all important sub discovery of February 13th 2019 11:15 a.m. central time US is correct, and in all respects. 

9-9-17 was when  I discovered that the tip joint is solely responsible for all plucks but I still believed that the large knuckle is used actively to bring the finger to its string.

2-13-19 was when I realized that the tip joint's contractive action is the sole vehicle for bringing the finger to its string, while keeping a larger 2 joints relaxed at all times.

 It is important to note that none of this works unless we invoke the "sticky piece of dust" parameter in which we ensure that the tip joint's contractive trajectory is as extraordinarily narrow/ tight/ immediate as is possible. A great way to envision this is for us to pretend that we are attempting to fling an imaginary piece of sticky dust, which is stuck upon the underside of our nail, straight up so that it would stick upon the underside of our plucking finger's own large/ main knuckle joint, using only the tip joint to accomplish this (while adding said stabilizing pressure as expressed above).

Rest stroke and free stroke work in exactly the same fashion. The only thing that changes with rest stroke is the orientation of the hand, such that the follow through of the rest stroke is artificially terminated at the adjacent string.

There is a clear symbiotic relationship which exists between the lightness of the presentation of the finger to its string and the subsequent tightness or narrowness or immediacy of the tip joint's contractive trajectory during that joint's sole activation.

The laws of physics and geometry dictate that in spite of the fact that the tip joint is *attempting* to direct the string straight toward the plucking finger's own large/ main knuckle joint, the string in fact interfaces with the plucking finger's tip/ nail such that the string becomes the subject of an opposing force, not an engaging one, and is thus directed down into the top of the instrument, just as we desire.

"There is a tide in the affairs of men, which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures."

-William Shakespeare

"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt."

-William Shakespeare

"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."

-William Shakespeare

 "Some among us now stand at the precipice of greatness; others are on the brink of comprehending that which has long served as foundational to their own..."


Crofty
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:32 pm

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by Crofty » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:05 pm

Ortega wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:40 pm
No changes here; there never will be again, because the discovery is complete and has been since June 24th, 2019.
Followed today by:

"At 8:45am central time US, yesterday, 8-2-19, I discovered that the requisite stabilizing pressure at the large knuckle actually comes from gravity."

musikai
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Augsburg, Germany

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by musikai » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:32 am

Anyway, who is helped by words?
Did anybody learn to play guitar by reading theoretical axioms?

Scott, how about a practical series of detailed exercises?
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Ortega
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:49 pm

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by Ortega » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:07 pm

"So every bondman in his own hand bears the power to cancel his captivity"

-William Shakespeare

"From this moment the very firstlings of my heart shall be the firstlings of my hand”

-William Shakespeare

 My friends, I believe the title of my coming book must be:

"The Firstlings of my Heart"

-The Art and the Mechanics of the Classical Guitar

Yes, tip joint does literally everything, including (and perhaps most importantly of all) bringing the finger to its string, while the two larger joints are maintained in a relaxed state at all times.

This is certainly the most radical and heretofore unheard of parameter of the discovery, and it will change classical guitar technique pedagogy forever. 

Neither of the two larger joints participate actively in any way, at any time, though they do move freely and in large measure. All movement at both of the two larger joints is always and only passive.

Requisite pressure is added to the string not via active work at the large/ main knuckle joint, as is so often taught, but is in fact produced to the appropriate extent via the player allowing the arm's/ hand's weight to relent to gravity to the degree necessary, as is dictated by the given technical scenario at hand (pun intended).

musikai
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Augsburg, Germany

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by musikai » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:54 am

deleted :mouton:
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Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
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DevonBadger
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 8:03 pm
Location: Devon, UK

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by DevonBadger » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:51 pm

musikai wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:54 am
deleted :mouton:
Oh come on... I really want to see what you said! :D

musikai
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Augsburg, Germany

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by musikai » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:04 pm

DevonBadger wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:51 pm
musikai wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:54 am
deleted :mouton:
Oh come on... I really want to see what you said! :D
Don't mind, this just was much ado about nothing... :)
Free Sagreras Gitarrenschule PDF
Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
See website link

DevonBadger
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 8:03 pm
Location: Devon, UK

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by DevonBadger » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:23 pm

musikai wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:04 pm
DevonBadger wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:51 pm
musikai wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:54 am
deleted :mouton:
Oh come on... I really want to see what you said! :D
Don't mind, this just was much ado about nothing... :)
Shame. This is one of those threads where I get excited every time I see there is a new post.

DevonBadger
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 8:03 pm
Location: Devon, UK

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by DevonBadger » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:30 pm

Ortega wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:07 pm
"So every bondman in his own hand bears the power to cancel his captivity"

-William Shakespeare

"From this moment the very firstlings of my heart shall be the firstlings of my hand”

-William Shakespeare

 My friends, I believe the title of my coming book must be:

"The Firstlings of my Heart"

-The Art and the Mechanics of the Classical Guitar

Yes, tip joint does literally everything, including (and perhaps most importantly of all) bringing the finger to its string, while the two larger joints are maintained in a relaxed state at all times.

This is certainly the most radical and heretofore unheard of parameter of the discovery, and it will change classical guitar technique pedagogy forever. 

Neither of the two larger joints participate actively in any way, at any time, though they do move freely and in large measure. All movement at both of the two larger joints is always and only passive.

Requisite pressure is added to the string not via active work at the large/ main knuckle joint, as is so often taught, but is in fact produced to the appropriate extent via the player allowing the arm's/ hand's weight to relent to gravity to the degree necessary, as is dictated by the given technical scenario at hand (pun intended).
Hi Scott, I'm struggling to give my total focus to the tip joint - I feel that I always want to actively move first from the big knuckle.

Could you give a different description or analogy for the sensation in the fingers we should be aiming for? Is it like trying to pick up something small and delicate?

Ortega
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:49 pm

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by Ortega » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:54 pm

Title changed to:

"The Firstlings of our Hands"
-"The art and precise mechanics of the classical guitar"

***************************************************

"From this moment the very firstlings of my heart shall be the firstlings of my hand”

-William Shakespeare

"So every bondman in his own hand bears the power to cancel his captivity"

-William Shakespeare

 My friends, I believe the title of my coming method book must be:

"The Firstlings of our Hands"
-"The art and precise mechanics of the classical guitar"

Yes, tip joint does literally everything, including (and perhaps most importantly of all) bringing the finger to its string, while the two larger joints are maintained in a relaxed state at all times.

This is certainly the most radical and heretofore unheard of parameter of the discovery, and it will change classical guitar technique pedagogy forever. 

Neither of the two larger joints participate actively in any way, at any time, though they do move freely and in large measure. All movement at both of the two larger joints is always and only passive.

Requisite pressure is added to the string not via active work at the large/ main knuckle joint, as is so often taught, but is in fact produced to the appropriate extent via the player allowing the arm's/ hand's weight to relent to gravity to the degree necessary, as is dictated by the given technical scenario at hand (pun intended).

Re: video linked here; description section is crucial for all.



Just discovered that the requisite stabilizing pressure at the large knuckle actually comes from gravity, when we allow the weight of the arm/ hand to naturally and in fact passively apply the requisite pressure at the large knuckle, during the pluck itself.

 Only the tip joint is actually executing active work, at any time, just as I was proposing earlier in the year!

I'm absolutely keeping the 2 larger joints relaxed at all times, using the tip joint to do everything including bringing the finger to its string (this is perhaps the most radical and all important parameter of the discovery).

I didn't realize that this required pressure at the large knuckle was actually coming from gravity itself, or that it could and in fact must! For a time, I TOO fell under the spell the very neurological illusion that I have originally identified.

This means that my original discovery of September 9th 2017 at 10:45 a.m. central time US, as further refined by the all important sub discovery of February 13th 2019 11:15 a.m. central time US is correct, and in all respects. 

9-9-17 was when  I discovered that the tip joint is solely responsible for all *plucks* but I still believed that the large knuckle is used actively to bring the finger to its string.

2-13-19 was when I realized that the tip joint's contractive action is the sole vehicle for bringing the finger to its string, while keeping a larger 2 joints relaxed at all times.

 It is important to note that none of this works unless we invoke the "sticky piece of dust" parameter in which we ensure that the tip joint's contractive trajectory is as extraordinarily narrow/ tight/ immediate as is possible. A great way to envision this is for us to pretend that we are attempting to fling an imaginary piece of sticky dust, which is stuck upon the underside of our nail, straight up so that it would stick upon the underside of our plucking finger's own large/ main knuckle joint, using only the tip joint to accomplish this (while adding said stabilizing pressure as expressed above).

Rest stroke and free stroke work in exactly the same fashion. The only thing that changes with rest stroke is the orientation of the hand, such that the follow through of the rest stroke is artificially terminated at the adjacent string.

There is a clear symbiotic relationship which exists between the lightness of the presentation of the finger to its string and the subsequent tightness or narrowness or immediacy of the tip joint's contractive trajectory during that joint's sole activation.

The laws of physics and geometry dictate that in spite of the fact that the tip joint is *attempting* to direct the string straight toward the plucking finger's own large/ main knuckle joint, the string in fact interfaces with the plucking finger's tip/ nail such that the string becomes the subject of an opposing force, not an engaging one, and is thus directed down into the top of the instrument, just as we desire.

"There is a tide in the affairs of men, which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures."

-William Shakespeare

"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt."

-William Shakespeare

"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."

-William Shakespeare

 "Some among us now stand at the precipice of greatness; others are on the brink of comprehending that which has long served as foundational to their own..."

musikai
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Augsburg, Germany

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by musikai » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:37 pm

DevonBadger wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:23 pm
musikai wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:04 pm
DevonBadger wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:51 pm


Oh come on... I really want to see what you said! :D
Don't mind, this just was much ado about nothing... :)
Shame. This is one of those threads where I get excited every time I see there is a new post.
Haha, I am too. But it's always the same repated again and again. I asked for practical exercises, you asked for another perspective - Scott copies and pastes his same words.

With Scott quoting Shakespeare and looking for a title of his "Book", paired with the bizarreness of this thread a friend of mine spontaneously suggested:
"Much Ado About Nothing" which is the title of a Shakespeare comedy.

I thought Scott could get this wrong but now I think he surely can take this with humor.
Free Sagreras Gitarrenschule PDF
Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
See website link

Ortega
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:49 pm

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by Ortega » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:24 pm

Hand surgeon, one of the best in the world, just told me that when we activate our tip joint, the middle joint automatically does perform "involuntary work"; so rather than say that "no work" is being performed at the middle joint, it is more correct to say that we must intentionally activate only the tip joint and that all movement at the middle joint is *involuntary* as opposed to "passive".

 The end result is really the same, in terms of what commands we must give the right hand, but just for clarity, this is an important distinction to make.

The important thing within the mind of the guitarist, however, is to simply focus on only intentionally activating the tip joint, while simply allowing the middle and large/ main knuckle joints to "do what they will".

It is imperative that during the pluck itself we allow the right arm's/ hand's weight to relent to gravity for each and every pluck, and to the appropriate degree (which is often quite a lot).

 Apparently my chosen method book title was too esoteric. I thought that the target audience was generally a fairly intellectual crowd, nevertheless the title was not recommended.

Working title is now:

"Classical Guitar at Your Fingertips: a Complete Manual on the Correct and Most Natural Way to Play"

robert e
Posts: 739
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:49 pm

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by robert e » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:09 pm

Ortega wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:24 pm

Working title is now:

"Classical Guitar at Your Fingertips: a Complete Manual on the Correct and Most Natural Way to Play"
Whatever the merits of your approach (and/or your ability to communicate it), I like the title!
Ortega wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:24 pm
Hand surgeon, one of the best in the world, just told me that when we activate our tip joint, the middle joint automatically does perform "involuntary work"; so rather than say that "no work" is being performed at the middle joint, it is more correct to say that we must intentionally activate only the tip joint and that all movement at the middle joint is *involuntary* as opposed to "passive".
That's a heck of a clarification. Not saying I'm on board with the approach, but it makes a lot more sense when you put it this way. Keep that surgeon handy while you draft the book.

DevonBadger
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 8:03 pm
Location: Devon, UK

Re: Right hand technique: a new perspective

Post by DevonBadger » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:03 pm

robert e wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:09 pm
Ortega wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:24 pm

Working title is now:

"Classical Guitar at Your Fingertips: a Complete Manual on the Correct and Most Natural Way to Play"
Whatever the merits of your approach (and/or your ability to communicate it), I like the title!
Ortega wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:24 pm
Hand surgeon, one of the best in the world, just told me that when we activate our tip joint, the middle joint automatically does perform "involuntary work"; so rather than say that "no work" is being performed at the middle joint, it is more correct to say that we must intentionally activate only the tip joint and that all movement at the middle joint is *involuntary* as opposed to "passive".
That's a heck of a clarification. Not saying I'm on board with the approach, but it makes a lot more sense when you put it this way. Keep that surgeon handy while you draft the book.
Why does involuntary make more sense than passive? Given the focus hasn't changed from being exclusively on the tip joint, it doesn't make any difference to me how the other joints are described. Am I misreading what Scott said?

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