Carles Trepat

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zupfgeiger
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Re: Carles Trepat

Post by zupfgeiger » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:12 am

yes, lucky me. Peter for example helped me to better play the gigue from the 3. cello suite by explaining the idea behind a gigue to me. Since then I take more care for the rythm. And yes, Belgium has some world class guitarists. Let's not forget Jan Depreter in Antwerp and Hugue Navez in Brussels, awonderful teacher and organisator of the Brussels Guitar Festival.
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ddray
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Re: Carles Trepat

Post by ddray » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:15 am

Francisco wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:37 pm
...
Now, I do like the sound of the harpsichord (when properly recorded) much better than the piano, but I don’t claim to know anything about how Bach should or should not be played on these instruments. Still I was surprised to read those strong words by Ross. Is a staccato version of that piece really an unforgivable blasphemy? Does it prove that Gould was clueless about Bach?
This reads like hyperbole on the part of Ross. To most harpsichordists, the very act of playing Bach on a piano is unforgivable blasphemy. Now, staccato is not indicated in the urtext edition of the first Partita that I have, but then again Bach (unlike Beethoven, for the most part) allows quite a bit of interpretive freedom. For example, I love Ralph Kirkpatrick's recording of the Goldberg Variations on the harpsichord, especially the 13th in which Kirkpatrick used a lute stop for the bass line, giving a staccato accompaniment effect. It's lovely and completely valid, but it's nowhere indicated in the score. I don't think Bach's music suffered irreparable harm just because an eccentric-but-brilliant pianist had momentarily different takes. (In the Gould recording of the Allemande that I've heard, the problem to me isn't staccato but rather that he takes it way, way too fast. As usual.)

By the way I used to prefer listening to Bach on the harpsichord as well, but my attitude is changing. I think the piano highlights the intricate polyphony more clearly than a harpsichord can, and has much better sustain for held notes. Now if you had a two-manual piano with a lute stop... :lol:

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zupfgeiger
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Re: Carles Trepat

Post by zupfgeiger » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:51 am

harpsichord vs piano seems to be like lute vs. classical guitar.
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Francisco
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Re: Carles Trepat

Post by Francisco » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:41 pm

ddray wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:15 am
Francisco wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:37 pm
...
Now, I do like the sound of the harpsichord (when properly recorded) much better than the piano, but I don’t claim to know anything about how Bach should or should not be played on these instruments. Still I was surprised to read those strong words by Ross. Is a staccato version of that piece really an unforgivable blasphemy? Does it prove that Gould was clueless about Bach?
This reads like hyperbole on the part of Ross. To most harpsichordists, the very act of playing Bach on a piano is unforgivable blasphemy. Now, staccato is not indicated in the urtext edition of the first Partita that I have, but then again Bach (unlike Beethoven, for the most part) allows quite a bit of interpretive freedom. For example, I love Ralph Kirkpatrick's recording of the Goldberg Variations on the harpsichord, especially the 13th in which Kirkpatrick used a lute stop for the bass line, giving a staccato accompaniment effect. It's lovely and completely valid, but it's nowhere indicated in the score. I don't think Bach's music suffered irreparable harm just because an eccentric-but-brilliant pianist had momentarily different takes. (In the Gould recording of the Allemande that I've heard, the problem to me isn't staccato but rather that he takes it way, way too fast. As usual.)

By the way I used to prefer listening to Bach on the harpsichord as well, but my attitude is changing. I think the piano highlights the intricate polyphony more clearly than a harpsichord can, and has much better sustain for held notes. Now if you had a two-manual piano with a lute stop... :lol:
Thanks for the comments and info. Indeed, Ross’s remarks sounded a bit wild to me.

It was not that long ago that I developed an interest in the harpsichord. It was thanks to the David Russell double album, The Grandeur of the Baroque, in particular the pieces by François Couperin, which I had never heard, and I just loved the way Russell played them on the guitar. I became curious how they sounded on the instrument for which they had been composed, and so I discovered in youtube the French harpsichordist Blandine Verlet who recorded pretty much all his pieces for harpsichord. I was very pleasantly surprised at how beautiful it can sound (I listened to her 2012 double CD) Prior to this, for all I knew I might have agreed with the description given by some wit or other a long time ago, to the effect that it sounds like “two skeletons copulating on a tin roof in a thunderous night” or something like that. Not anymore. I’ve learned it is an instrument that poses some serious challenges for proper recording, which perhaps explains why I had never been attracted by its sound. I heard that the sound can easily come out flattened in the recording, dried, or when attempting to compensate this problem, it can sometimes be drowned in a thick cloud of reverberation. Well, somehow those 2012 recordings (bar code 3149028016628) sound wonderful to me and I’ve become a kind of fan of Blandine Verlet, who passed away last December.
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ddray
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Re: Carles Trepat

Post by ddray » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:22 pm

I agree that the harpsichord is a beautiful instrument, and it's true they sound better live than in a recording. To me the sound just seems "bigger" than what you might expect if you've never heard one in person. I'd also say that the harpsichord music of Couperin, Handel and probably Rameau as well just never sounds quite right at all to me on a piano. Maybe it's because their writing isn't quite as "dense" in texture as Bach's, especially in the inner voices. But there are more color possibilities on harpsichord, if not in shading.
Well, I wish I could afford to buy a harpsichord. I've never heard a convincing digital simulation of one. I've also started to appreciate the clavichord more, which is an instrument that once upon a time I couldn't stand.

(Edit)...@zupfgeiger: Yeah, it seems that harpsichord vs piano does have a lot of similarities to lute vs guitar, probably in a purist vs not-quite-as-purist way. The roles may be reversed a little though, with the 13-course lute having a richer bass than a 6-string guitar (if I'm not mistaken - I've never played a lute). I've always preferred the sound of the guitar though, but to each his/her own, I guess.

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