Playing Live in the Y2K

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Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:30 pm

"So, Lagartija, if you want to call me an elitist as some have done previously . . . that's fine since, to me, it has no pejorative connotation but rather represents a desire to continue what the "best and brightest" of our culture has created for thousands of years and some of us seek to perpetuate for future generations. If we always seek to "dumb down" our voices to reach the "masses, the common folk, the people"...etc. etc.

Dickens wrote his novels in serial form and they appeared in the newspapers. They were wildly popular with the public at large. Balzac was read by the 'masses' during his lifetime as well. Tolstoy was a hero to the working class in Russia and was read by everyone else too. I guess none to them represent the best that culture has to offer, otherwise what Rognvald likes to call 'the dimwits and genetically inferior dolts' wouldn't have appreciated them. Oh, and Robert Frost is a favorite of schoolchildren and farmers and truck drivers everywhere. And Rognvald!

My point is that so called elitists are often part of the herd after all; that or these same elitists have suspiciously popular taste. A peasant with a sneer is still a peasant--that is, just like all of the rest of us peasants, despite his protestations.
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lagartija
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by lagartija » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:52 pm

Well, Rognvald, you can keep beating on that straw man if it feels satisfying.
I answered your request for clarification about what I meant by my statement.

I noticed that you interpreted what I said to be contrary to what you think, even though I have not explicitly contradicted anything you have said, I only agreed with some of Andrei’s statements in my initial post .
I also noticed that you applied what I said to the concert in your example when I said that I could not speak to why the seats were empty in that concert but gave two possible reasons, which you say could not be the case. I said nothing about the string quartet’s program, so don’t put words in my mouth that I considered it unimaginative. I did not say that because in my clarification I was not referring to your sample concert. I also did not call you an elitist, but you put those words in my mouth too.
I also noticed that my example of disrespect was an “outlier”, but your single concert empty hall was not...even though the concerts in my area are selling out and there are so many to choose from that you have to be careful how you schedule.

To me, it appears that your mind is made up, and further discussion seems pointless, since no contrary evidence is acceptable. There is always a reason it has no validity. I guess since you seem to enjoy putting words in my mouth, you can continue the conversation without me.
:bye:
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Rognvald
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by Rognvald » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:31 am

Dickens wrote his novels in serial form and they appeared in the newspapers. They were wildly popular with the public at large. Balzac was read by the 'masses' during his lifetime as well. Tolstoy was a hero to the working class in Russia and was read by everyone else too. I guess none to them represent the best that culture has to offer, otherwise what Rognvald likes to call 'the dimwits and genetically inferior dolts' wouldn't have appreciated them. Oh, and Robert Frost is a favorite of schoolchildren and farmers and truck drivers everywhere. And Rognvald! Jeff A

Professor Armbruster,
Tell me what "greats" are being read by the masses today? Sidney Sheldon, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Danielle Steele, Harold Robbins . . . come on, Jeff . . . I'm getting sick to my stomach. You compare these pot boiling hacks to Dickens, Tolstoi and Frost? Perhaps the readers have changed and we are ,as I believe, in a decline. . . certainly national test scores show that to be the reality. However, your last line above is painfully and patently fictional and absurd . . . Schoolchildren, farmers and truck drivers reading Frost??? What alternate universe are you living in? Most don't even know who our vice president is . . . but they're reading Frost? I think you've spent far too much time in Berkeley . . . why not take a walk in the real world for once? Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:48 am

"Professor Armbruster,
Tell me what "greats" are being read by the masses today? Sidney Sheldon, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Danielle Steele, Harold Robbins . . . come on, Jeff . . . I'm getting sick to my stomach. You compare these pot boiling hacks to Dickens, Tolstoi and Frost?"

I did nothing of the sort. As Lagartija pointed out, you seem to have a penchant for putting words in other people's mouths. Then you argue with that. No wonder you're getting sick to your stomach! And yes, Rognvald, yes! Farmers and truck drivers and taxi cab drivers and plenty of other people who also make you nauseous adore Frost! As well they should! So you're rubbing shoulders with the great unwashed and have plenty in common! You should invite a schoolteacher or a butcher over for dinner sometime. You might learn something.

As for who are the greats being read today--well, I work in a bookstore, so I know something about this. People are reading all of the classics. And, unlike you I suspect, they're also reading writers like Franzen and Coetzee and Sebald and Roy and John Berger, to name a few novelists alone. (Well Berger is more than a novelist). And Feynman and Greene and McPhee and Kushi...whew! I could go on forever. And kids books! Wow! Some great stuff here. People are curious and look to discover new voices that aren't necessarily sanctioned by "greatness". This is admirable; they explore and take risks.

You strike me as something of a Kipling era man, with the cigars and the whiskey and the rigid class distinctions. Except Kipling was good humored. That world passed away a long time ago.
Last edited by Jeffrey Armbruster on Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rognvald
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by Rognvald » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:35 am

I did nothing of the sort. As Lagartija pointed out, you seem to have a penchant for putting words in other people's mouths. Jeff A
O.K., Jeff,
It is a classic debate technique(as taught when I went to school) when presented with a perfectly constructed argument and one is at a loss to respond logically and rationally-- to divert the conversation by claiming that your counterpart is "putting words in others mouths." Jeff, I'm not responding to Roy Rogers and his trusty horse trigger but to specific comments made by you and Lagartija. And, I don't think it is necessary to repeat what I have already said so our trusty readers(sounds like Lawrence Stern, huh?) must suffice with the record as written. I really don't know where you get your statistics on " Farmers and truck drivers and taxi cab drivers" and I dare not forget "butchers" (The Nobel Savage construct?)and their love for Frost's poems but I can assure you they must live in a world I have never visited since I live in "Farm Country" and I can assure you they are wonderful, friendly people but among the most boring people I've ever met in my life unless you like canasta, bingo, country western music, Nascar and discussions of animal husbandry . . . not that there's anything wrong with animal husbandry . . . but not in my barnyard. So, Jeff, we must allow our words to stand as written and let the readers judge for themselves although, I never wanted to be a member of the Student Council, Crossing Guards, Most Popular Student or any other popularity poll, for that matter, and I will live and die by the sword of the buzzing swarms. However, I do have a confession to reveal . . . there has only been one book in my life that was so insufferably boring that I pleaded with my professor to chose any other book in its place . . . "Tristam Shandy" by Lawrence Stern and were it not for Goethe(who is really early Romantic) I would dump the entire basket of 18th Century Novels in the basket of oblivion. . . how's that for thread drift in the Y2K? Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

montana
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by montana » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:54 am

Nobody else chime in...this is getting good

PeteJ
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by PeteJ » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:35 am

I don't think this is all about music. In the UK social life is fading away. The Working Men's Club's have almost gone, the pubs are closing, the shops are closing and even drinkers tend to fuel up at home before going out late. The smoking ban, the internet, sometimes problems with law and order, etc etc.. In my neck of the woods even daily shopping is becoming tricky as the shops close.

Then there is the collapse of the education system due to the imposition of the National Curriculum. If we let the government decide what our children are taught then we can't complain when the system is turned into a processing-plant for increasing GDP and tax-revenues. In 1997 when I complained to a primary-school head-teacher that there was no music in the school after a Christmas in which the children did not even get to sing carols, he said don't worry, we're introducing the Silver Burdett system. I nearly fell-over laughing. Most of the good teachers had already left due to the insanity of the Education Department and not one could play a recorder. I believe that our education system should be referred to the NSPCC.

Were I in my twenties and any good as a player I'd buy a camper van and go on a tour doing home concerts via one of the relevant websites. Or maybe I'd set up a couple for rooms for Air B&B and offer guitar lessons as part of the package. If all else fails I'd go busking. Anything to make a buck. People still love the CG. Last time I tried to get a gig to keep my hand in I asked a bar and restaurant owner and was given two on the spot for a fair fee with no audition or questions asked. I like to think that I could set-up a residency and have a regular weekly gig or two if I put my mind to it and pulled in a duet partner, maybe a keyboard player with Omnisphere and Kontakt so I can do Cavatina, Star Wars, some concerto movements etc with orchestral backing. A residency is a truly wonderful thing because you can build an audience (or completely alienate one).

Overall, and leaving aside the details of the origin of music, Rognvald seems to have a point. On the other hand, we've just lived through an extraordinary period in music history and it couldn't last. Haydn may have been the first commercially successful composer and that wasn't long ago.

I feel music is caught up in the general social change and just part of the fallout. The human race is dumbing down in a race to scientise culture and society and maximise economic growth and the population of selfish genes.

All 'in my opinion', of course. Who knows where we're heading.

EDIT: Oops. I just noticed I missed a few pages of discussion and an argument.

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lucy
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by lucy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:44 am

Rognvald wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:31 am
Tell me what "greats" are being read by the masses today? Sidney Sheldon, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Danielle Steele, Harold Robbins . . . come on, Jeff . . . I'm getting sick to my stomach. You compare these pot boiling hacks to Dickens, Tolstoi and Frost?
Rognvald. You are missing something crucial here.

The likes of Dickens, Tolstoi and Frost have been elevated to "greatness", after the passage of time. I would bet that many other writers were also very popular during that time. But, they haven't been remembered. One thing that all great human endeavours have in common is they endure.

It's not fair to cite Danielle Steele, etc. as evidence of intellectual decline, since her work probably won't be talked about in years to come. There were probably many, many authors of DS's quality around, in Dickens time too.

I'm not well-versed in the history of literature, but I know it was the case for music. For every Mozart, there were huge numbers of "run of the mill" composers. In fact, Mozart was seen so much as just one of many, in his lifetime, his much revered piano sonatas weren't even published! His wife Constanze took it upon herself to get them published after his death.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

rpavich
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by rpavich » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:54 am

montana wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:54 am
Nobody else chime in...this is getting good
No kidding, this is like watching a car accident happen in slow motion.
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rojarosguitar
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:19 am

A car accident often happens because one or more involved chose to ignore the whole of the circumstances. But after it happens, those who weren't involved rush to give first aid to the survivors. Maybe we need the first aid now. Not lighting a cigarette while gas is pouring out...

Ladies and gentleman, please cool down... This or that way you're not going to save the world today
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
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montana
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by montana » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:14 pm

true Robert, maybe thats just our way of saying heads up to all. however, judging by previous posts, i dont think those involved will let this get out off hand.

Rognvald
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by Rognvald » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:39 pm

The likes of Dickens, Tolstoi and Frost have been elevated to "greatness", after the passage of time. Lucy

Lucy,
Did you forget professor Armbruster's previous quote? He stated: "Dickens wrote his novels in serial form and they appeared in the newspapers. They were wildly popular with the public at large. Balzac was read by the 'masses' during his lifetime as well. Tolstoy was a hero to the working class in Russia and was read by everyone else too. " According to our esteemed colleague, they were instant "hits." Secondly, in regards to Danielle Steele, it is my personal opinion that she is a soppy, predictable fiction writer of Romance tales for insufferably bored women around the world who seek to fill the romantic voids in their lives. How else could one suffer through her fictional claptrap? However, if you're looking to cite an accomplished female writer, why not cite the real deal: Anais Nin or Sylvia Plath? So, when you state "I'm not well-versed in the history of literature, Lucy," I would respectfully agree with your honest assessment . . . but I do like your music. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

RaajShinde
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by RaajShinde » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:11 pm

Rognvald wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:39 pm
The likes of Dickens, Tolstoi and Frost have been elevated to "greatness", after the passage of time. Lucy
Secondly, in regards to Danielle Steele, it is my personal opinion that she is a soppy, predictable fiction writer of Romance tales for insufferably bored women around the world who seek to fill the romantic voids in their lives. How else could one suffer through her fictional claptrap? However, if you're looking to cite an accomplished female writer, why not cite the real deal: Anais Nin or Sylvia Plath? So, when you state "I'm not well-versed in the history of literature, Lucy," I would respectfully agree with your honest assessment.
Funny you bring up Danielle Steele. One of my friends is a lady who teaches math at one of the top computer science school on the planet and who happens to also be a fan of Ms. Steele. Several other highly accomplished and highly intelligent women I know happen to read Ms. Steele too. None of them, to the best of my knowledge are bored in general or have “romantic voids” in their lives. I am sure they would be amazed at your broad-brush categorization, which I personally find terribly amusing because it speak more about you than anything else.

Has it ever occurred to you that there might be valid perspectives in this world that differ from yours? Or are you a a “one-truth” guy? If you are, let me leave with this thought - “If out of the many truths of this world, you choose to follow one to the exclusion of all others, that truth becomes a falsehood and you a fanatic”.

Emulating your example in giving Lucy feedback, I am sorely tempted to give you some feedback but I will refrain in the interest of forum decorum.

Cheers!
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.

Rognvald
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by Rognvald » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:00 pm

Funny you bring up Danielle Steele. One of my friends is a lady who teaches math at one of the top computer science school on the planet and who happens to also be a fan of Ms. Steele. Several other highly accomplished and highly intelligent women I know happen to read Ms. Steele too. None of them, to the best of my knowledge are bored in general or have “romantic voids” in their lives. Raaj

And, tell me, dear Raaj . . . what knowledge do you possess about your female friends' romantic life? And, how did you acquire that knowledge? Are you a sex counselor? Have they confided their innermost secrets to you or are you just assuming something that fits your poorly conceived narrative? And, while we're at it, competence in Math/Science has nothing to do with taste in Music and Art. Proclivities do not jump fences in the real world as easily as you presume in your imagined world. Finally, there was no offense to Lucy, as you perceived, but only a clarification of a statement and a complement to her playing. The world has a place for gadflies like yourself . . . usually at the other end of a flyswatter. So, in the words of the famed 21st Century philosopher, Rodney King . . . "Can't we just all get along?" How, dear readers, do I show an emoji with tears????
Playing again . . . Rognvald P.S. Thanks for the reply, Raaj!
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

rpavich
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Re: Playing Live in the Y2K

Post by rpavich » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:02 pm

This is insane.

The worst by product of the internet form of communication.

At least it's mildly entertaining.
Asturias AST-100-heavily modified by Robert England.

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