i Finger Clicks

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astro64
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by astro64 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:06 pm

I agree with guitarrista. Your nail on i seems too short. Since that finger is shorter than m, it can work better to have that nail longer than for the m finger. I am more likely to get a click when the nail is too short. The finger must land at the spot where the string make contact with flesh and nail. Too short a nail and it won't work. A bigger gap between flesh and nail mail require a longer nail to achieve this. I would also try not to file the left corner of that nail back so far. File it in a plane, slightly slanted. See Tennant's videos on this. Resist rounding the corners. The very left corner never contacts the string so it cannot be an issue to keep it; not rounding the nail does produces a more consistent straighter contact edge given a full sound.

PeteJ
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by PeteJ » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:31 am

I'm sure your advice is good for many cases, astro64, but I had to do pretty much the opposite of all this to cure the problem. For me it is to do with the gap between the flesh and the nail, which is much greater for my i finger than the others. I now play more off the RH side of the nail and this solves it.

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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by simonm » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:57 am

Solution:

(Good) Teacher.

SteveL123
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by SteveL123 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:50 pm

mmcnabb and PeteJ, have you tried playing on the other half of your nails to eliminate nail click? Instead of starting the pluck of the string from the thumb side of the nail of i,m,a and releasing towards the middle part of the nail, have you tried starting the pluck from the middle part of the nail and releasing towards the pinky side of the nail? Many top players play this way , e.g Tom Viloteau ......

mmcnabb
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by mmcnabb » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:41 pm

lagartija wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:29 pm
There is one other factor no one has yet mentioned. When applying the pressure to depress the string, does the finger rotate at all? I had this problem with my a finger; I would start out at the correct angle of presentation, then as pressure was applied, the finger would rotate and the string would slide into the space between nail and flesh. This could be observed by looking in the mirror. It took a bit of careful awareness during slow practice to correct the problem. Then tone improved and the click was gone.

If you are able to do it properly with slow passages but not in fast passages, that may indicate that you should slow down that passage until you find the top speed at which you can do it correctly, then increase the execution tempo bit by bit. Playing the passage fast over and over with the click problem just ensures that you will ingrain that problem in the passage.
That's a fair point! The fingertip doesn't appear to rotate at all so I'm not sure this is the issue.

I've been practicing lately at an even greater angle to the strings, and at first it seemed a little uncomfortable, but it does seem to be getting more natural. I think that the clicking is reduced a bit as well. I'll keep at it and see if I can keep it up.
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mmcnabb
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by mmcnabb » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:43 pm

astro64 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:06 pm
I agree with guitarrista. Your nail on i seems too short. Since that finger is shorter than m, it can work better to have that nail longer than for the m finger. I am more likely to get a click when the nail is too short. The finger must land at the spot where the string make contact with flesh and nail. Too short a nail and it won't work. A bigger gap between flesh and nail mail require a longer nail to achieve this. I would also try not to file the left corner of that nail back so far. File it in a plane, slightly slanted. See Tennant's videos on this. Resist rounding the corners. The very left corner never contacts the string so it cannot be an issue to keep it; not rounding the nail does produces a more consistent straighter contact edge given a full sound.
I'm working on testing this theory as well. I have to let the nail grow a bit to test it out, but it does seem in keeping with the Kanengiser video where he describes how to file the nails.
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by mmcnabb » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:47 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:49 pm
It seems your nail is way too short and possibly not of the right shape, on your i finger. You have to find the right length and nail shape so that there is a seamless transition between the pressed flesh and the nail. Note that it is the flesh as pressed by the string against which the fingertip is working - not as you see it when just looking at your finger. When the string is pressing (well, really, the fingertip flesh is pushing the string) back on the flesh, it moves it at least a bit toward the nail; it is that pressed 3D shape of your fingertip (flesh plus nail) that is of relevance.
I'm not in total agreement here. I don't actually "press" the flesh onto the string at all. When I am well warmed up and the fingers are hitting the strings accurately, the flesh barely touches the string at all. It's almost a graze - just enough to dampen the ringing string and prepare it to touch the nail. If I'm "digging in" I do it with the resistance of the nail, not the flesh. That may not be everyone's experience, and I have seen some who teach that there should be a deep contact point with the flesh, but I don't use this approach.
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by guitarrista » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:49 am

Hmm, I am finding it hard to picture what possible trajectory could agree with this and still produce a good sound.
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PeteJ
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by PeteJ » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:26 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:50 pm
mmcnabb and PeteJ, have you tried playing on the other half of your nails to eliminate nail click? Instead of starting the pluck of the string from the thumb side of the nail of i,m,a and releasing towards the middle part of the nail, have you tried starting the pluck from the middle part of the nail and releasing towards the pinky side of the nail? Many top players play this way , e.g Tom Viloteau ......
Yep, this is pretty much what I do to solve the problem. I've tried many ways of shaping the nail over the years but nothing worked except changing the point of impact and release.

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AndresK
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by AndresK » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:44 pm

Hello friend. I am teaching classical guitar in Greece for the last 10 years. Experimenting with many different angles, shapes and length all the years since I started playing the guitar 23 years ago.

Getting the click off my nails and of course off my students' nails has always been difficult but the last few years an easy solution presented itself. You might have heard of the flat filing nail shape or something similar. Scot Tennant has some very nice videos on youtube about that if you search a bit. It was also more or less the same with the late Roland Dyens. Many years ago I asked Mr Dyens to show me his nails during a seminar and was quite shocked when I saw an almost square shape and edges pointing out on the sides of his nails!

Trying this on my nails and on my students' nails takes the click away in an instant regardless the length.

I saw on the pictures you posted that your nails seem a bit round. It of course all right if it works for you, but if it doesn't, it would not hurt to try the flat shape. If you place your nail on a file with 45 degree angle, does it touch the file with just a point or a bigger line of the nail?

If you want more on that perspective please do not hesitate to ask.

Happy new year to all!!!

guit-box
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by guit-box » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:54 am

This video (and Tonebase in general) on fingernail filing might be useful. She uses a shape with a much steeper ramp than others have suggested. I suspect you may need a slightly more angled presentation to the string and/or a longer ramp. I find that a straight and steep ramp can make the transition from flesh to nail more seamless...like the angled splice in a piece of magnetic reel to reel tape-- if you've ever done analog audio editing.

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David Gutowski
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by David Gutowski » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:55 am

AndresK wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:44 pm
If you want more on that perspective please do not hesitate to ask.
Hello...thanks for the info. on nail shape. Is there any chance you might post a picture of your nails; front and back?

And hope you also have a happy new year.

Thanks so much,
David
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PeteJ
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by PeteJ » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:55 am

I forgot to mention that once in an effort to banish clicks I called into to a couple of nail salons to ask if there is an oil that has the same effect as hot water and softens the nails. (Mine are always okay after doing the washing-up). One told me to try Vic's Vapour Rub on my nails.

I found another solution and never tried this but thought I'd mention it in case it works. It seems highly unlikely but apparently it's used on nails sometimes for various reasons,

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AndresK
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by AndresK » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:30 am

David Gutowski wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:55 am
AndresK wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:44 pm
If you want more on that perspective please do not hesitate to ask.
Hello...thanks for the info. on nail shape. Is there any chance you might post a picture of your nails; front and back?

And hope you also have a happy new year.

Thanks so much,
David
Hello David! I am sorry it took so long but things are very busy around here and taking a decent picture of my nails took ages (also figuring out a way to attach it here on the forum). The length is quite short to play classical but it works quite well producing the right tone. If I had a whole concert to play I would have them longer. There is a front and back view but the actual help comes from the view I have while I am filing the nails (3rd image). You can notice a straight line there. The angle of each ramp comes from the angle every player uses his/her right wrist

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtd3l3plelx14 ... .jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ys82mlc6ymja ... .jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g21kbu3us783n ... .jpg?raw=1

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David Gutowski
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Re: i Finger Clicks

Post by David Gutowski » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:49 am

Thanks AndresK for the pictures. I'm going to try it and see how it plays. I've developed a "slice" thing with my fingers but I'm thinking it could be easier with your shape. My tone sounds pretty good, without the clicking that I had before, but I'm not actually plucking straight up like you see with the experienced players. They make it look so smooth and easy.

Thanks again for the help...and I'll keep working on it and let you know.
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Very best wishes,
David
3 hard things for humans: dentist visit, public speaking, offering forgiveness.

Muse: chg pitch measure rhym feel tempo improvise melody harmonize arpeggios stucco your legato & practice

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