MA Alternating Practice

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
Forum rules
IV Laws governing the quotation/citation of music


For discussion of studies, scales, arpeggios and theory.
soltirefa
Posts: 2489
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by soltirefa » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:53 pm

P.S. I noticed that jscott has closed his/her account just two minutes after my last post above. Now this makes me feel quite guilty, especially as I know that my writings can sometimes come across as rather arrogant and imperious (English is not my native language). So if anything in my last post did hurt jscott's or guitarist_le's feelings then I whole-heartedly and sincerely appologize to both of them.
That was nice of you to post that. I don't know if your post was the impetus for his/her decision to delete the account. Reading back at your previous post, it didn't seem too harsh. I can see how someone might feel slighted, but I have seen way worse.

User avatar
guitarist_le
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:06 pm
Location: Omaha, NE

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by guitarist_le » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:47 pm

Alexander Kalil wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:15 pm
guitarist_le wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:31 pm
But the Segovia studies don't really call for the A finger rest stroke?
Please stop calling them the "Segovia Studies". Music should be attributed to the composer, not the editor, at least as an act of fairness towards them. In any event, there's no such thing as a piece of music "calling for" the A finger rest stroke. There are players who like (or need) to use A finger rest stroke to bring out the melody in dense textures. A typical candidate for them would be Sor 's study Op. 6 No. 11, which is numbered 17 in the Segovia collection.

They are called Segovia Studies. Sor pieces being used is implied and obvious. Also these are editted and fingered by Segovia which is a different play style than Sor himself. Im not regarding these pieces as compositions and only as excersizes, hense my initital question lol

Crofty
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:32 pm

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by Crofty » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:23 pm

guitarist_le wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:47 pm



They are called Segovia Studies.

Im not regarding these pieces as compositions
Well, not by me they're not [and I have always tended to the belief that they definitely are compositions by the way].

User avatar
Julian Ward
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:52 am
Location: UK

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by Julian Ward » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:54 pm

MA alterations are a requirement for scales in the UK for the Trinity college board after grade 2. If anybody is interested, If you have a supinated hand position, MA (free or rest stroke) might well suit better for certain passages.
Classical guitar teacher

Crofty
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:32 pm

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by Crofty » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:26 pm

Julian Ward wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:54 pm
MA alterations are a requirement for scales in the UK for the Trinity college board after grade 2. If anybody is interested, If you have a supinated hand position, MA (free or rest stroke) might well suit better for certain passages.

Julian

I find a useful exercise to balance the rh position and evenness of finger alternation is to alternate all three in pairs [various alternatives available so what follows is just an example]

imia//mami//aiam

Each 4 note group can be repeated and the idea is to alternate without pause and with everything from volume to tone to action to feel and so on completely even.

[I prefer to maintain p on the adjacent lower string.]

Paul

User avatar
Julian Ward
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:52 am
Location: UK

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by Julian Ward » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:48 pm

Sounds good Paul. I must admit I use MA and IMA a lot myself but don't really think about it. I tend to teach MA just through scales. Although the Carcassi Op 60 no 2 is great for firing up the A finger and several variations of alterations are possible.
Classical guitar teacher

User avatar
Mark Clifton-Gaultier
Posts: 1912
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:03 pm
Location: England

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:31 am

Crofty wrote:
guitarist_le wrote: They are called Segovia Studies. ...
Well, not by me they're not ...
guitarist_le wrote:Im not regarding these pieces as compositions ...
... I have always tended to the belief that they definitely are compositions ...
LOL Paul.

I don't know with 100% certainty whether Sor actually composed them or just made a serendipitous discovery at the back of a kitchen cupboard, but one can understand Guitarist_le's misapprehension given the prominence of Andy's name and image whilst poor old Fred is generally relegated to a mention at the bottom of the page (in a smaller typeface of course).

That's marketing ... Edizioni Curci take a more even-handed approach but I'll put money on nobody thinking of their cover imagery when "the 20" are mentioned.
sor_20s.png
I'm as guilty as anyone - I had my old 1945 Augener edition signed by the man himself (no, not Sor before you tickle the world with one of your merry quips Paul) - I can't believe now that I actually took the thing with me - the embarrassing folly of youth ...
Julian Ward wrote:I tend to teach MA just through scales.
It used to be the case that i/m, m/a, i/m/a and i/m/a/m alternation were obligatory components of the scale work for examinations. I can't recall when that changed - maybe a couple of decades ago - I would welcome a return.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Luis_Br
Posts: 2385
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by Luis_Br » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:30 pm

I think practicing ma alternation is important for developing their independence, even if you would never use pure ma alternation in a musical context. ma alternation is mechanically harder because their tendons are tied together. Working on them will force you develop more control and more relaxed and economical playing, or you will have problems.
In the musical application I agree with Alexander, it is more on the player. Editor, composer or teacher's fingerings must be studied to understand articulation intentions etc., but a particular player may find his best way of doing it in a complete different way.
For example, Sergio Abreu at some point started playing fast scales almost only with ma alternation in concerts and recordings. He said the reason is his i finger is a bit short and with different nail, he didn't like its sound, so he would prefer using m or a for the melodies. He wouldn't bother studying a lot and doing the hardest way for musical reasons.

User avatar
guitarist_le
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:06 pm
Location: Omaha, NE

Re: MA Alternating Practice

Post by guitarist_le » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:45 pm

imia//mami//aiam

Each 4 note group can be repeated and the idea is to alternate without pause and with everything from volume to tone to action to feel and so on completely even.

[I prefer to maintain p on the adjacent lower string.]

Paul
Awesome! I will definitely work on this. I feel like MA are glued together and so hard to alternate. I'm getting better but IM are much faster. Currently doing the minor and major Segovia Scales and will implement these patterns in my practice. I really want to get this down. Thank you!

Return to “Classical Guitar technique”