Gigue tempo

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andrew382
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Gigue tempo

Post by andrew382 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:16 am

I'm talking about this particular piece on page 16:
https://classical-guitar-school.com/en/Files/1038.pdf

At which tempo should I play this piece? I've heard that 120 should be ok. In other words as if you played triplets at 40. At this tempo I still have problems playing the whole piece through. I can play it at 72 bpm that is 60 percent of the full tempo. At 80 percent (96 bpm) I'm starting to have problems. How can I get to full tempo and also improve my consistency?

Desperado
Posts: 223
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Re: Gigue tempo

Post by Desperado » Thu May 16, 2019 5:16 am

Something to give it a dance like pulse? Technically it sounds like you maybe finding it difficult to connect the notes together or play detached. My advice would be to play it really slowly making sure the notes are sustained,legato. Remember to play legato you still need to have fast movement.

franks59
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Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Gigue tempo

Post by franks59 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:10 pm

Of course you should only play it at a tempo that you can perform it beautifully, but as far as what a"proper" tempo for a Gigue is, Wikipedia says a Gigue is a " lively baroque dance originating from the Irish jig". I think 120 is way to slow to sound like an Irish Jig.

I'm currently working on the Gigue from BWV 1007 and I hear it most often played at twice that tempo - around 240 bpm for an eighth note or 80 bpm for a dotted quarter.

Frank

Crofty
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Re: Gigue tempo

Post by Crofty » Thu May 16, 2019 2:01 pm

What is your rh fingering?

I would use [and advise] ami for the triplets. How about you?

I'd suggest rh is harder than lh for this piece, for a less experienced player.

Paul

soltirefa
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Location: Southern California

Re: Gigue tempo

Post by soltirefa » Thu May 16, 2019 2:22 pm

This question reminds me of hearing the difference in this Weiss Gigue by two different 13-string players (both below). I like both performances. While I prefer the faster tempo, I think slower works, too.




andrew382
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: Gigue tempo

Post by andrew382 » Thu May 16, 2019 5:08 pm

Crofty wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:01 pm
What is your rh fingering?

I would use [and advise] ami for the triplets. How about you?

I'd suggest rh is harder than lh for this piece, for a less experienced player.

Paul
mim ami for the main theme but I also use other combinations further into the piece.

andrew382
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: Gigue tempo

Post by andrew382 » Thu May 16, 2019 5:12 pm

I managed to get it to 120 today but I can only play sections not the whole piece through. I can only do this at 72. I played the most difficult parts involving combinations between 2nd and 3rd finger at 20% of the full tempo approximately 50 times and then I could play them a couple of times at full tempo. I still lack consistency. After a few measures I can't control my movements anymore.

dhbailey52
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 am

Re: Gigue tempo

Post by dhbailey52 » Wed May 29, 2019 10:11 am

Many people play Irish jigs way too fast. For accompanying Irish Step Dancers the tempo is generally considered best when it's between 110 and 120. Since the gigue grew out of the Irish jig, anywhere in that range should be considered best for historical accuracy.

Of course anything can be played at any speed the performer feels is appropriate but if you're looking for what the composer originally had in mind, 110-120 is the range to aim for.

Regarding RH fingering, keep in mind that not everybody's fingerings will work for everybody else, so find the fingering that will allow you the most comfortable playing at the speed you are aiming for.

andrew382
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: Gigue tempo

Post by andrew382 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:12 am

dhbailey52 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:11 am
Many people play Irish jigs way too fast. For accompanying Irish Step Dancers the tempo is generally considered best when it's between 110 and 120. Since the gigue grew out of the Irish jig, anywhere in that range should be considered best for historical accuracy.

Of course anything can be played at any speed the performer feels is appropriate but if you're looking for what the composer originally had in mind, 110-120 is the range to aim for.

Regarding RH fingering, keep in mind that not everybody's fingerings will work for everybody else, so find the fingering that will allow you the most comfortable playing at the speed you are aiming for.
Ok. I got to 96 bpm from a to z even 100 if I don't play it through just the first section and the DC al fine section separately. If I remember right I think I could play it through at 100 bpm but it's not consistent yet so I only managed to do it once then the next takes become sloppier. Any advice on how to improve my consistency and get from 100 to 120?

dhbailey52
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 am

Re: Gigue tempo

Post by dhbailey52 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:21 am

Once you feel you've got it down at 100, move the metronome up a notch and play it at that slightly faster speed. On many electronic metronomes you can switch between single number increments (e.g. 100 to 101) and the more traditional gaps from the original pendulum metronomes. 1 bpm increase doesn't make that much difference to most people most of the time, so work the part you've learned well at the new speed until you feel comfortable and then increase the metronome again. Don't try to go from 100 to 120 in a single day -- take however long it takes. You can probably manage 2 or 3 increases every other day or maybe every three days. Following that procedure you can probably move from 100 to 120 in a week or two.

Work it up in sections, but don't leave one of the sections behind -- in other words, if you can do the first section at 100 but the other sections remain at 96, work those sections up one at a time until they're 100 also, so you can play the whole piece through consistently at 100. Then begin, section by section, to move from 100 to maybe 105, until you've got all the sections at 105, then begin the process all over to move to 110. Don't leave one section at 96 as you move another section to 120 -- keep the whole piece together so you can perform it for someone all the way through at a consistent tempo and with confidence.

VasquezBob
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: Gigue tempo

Post by VasquezBob » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:20 am

When a gigue is played too fast, I don't feel the dance. Just saying....

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