Are these difficult chord changes?

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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SteveL123
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Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:59 pm

I am learning this piece Porro by Gentil Montana from a score that is available on Musescore.org by Andre Lavor. The part I find most challenging is M28-36 where there's a bunch of quick chord changes that I find difficult. After a few days working on it, I can almost play it at a slowed down 25% tempo of 170. Here's a screenshot of the measures.

Question to those who play this piece and especially teachers and advanced players. Can you sight read this first try? There's no way I can. I need to draw chord diagrams to help with the fingering. Is that bad?
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Last edited by SteveL123 on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

SteveL123
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:08 pm

This is what it sounds like in Musecore at 170 BPM

Last edited by SteveL123 on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

celestemcc
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by celestemcc » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:50 pm

Is it a non-standard tuning? Obviously the 6th string is, but the rest?
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SteveL123
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:59 pm

celestemcc wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:50 pm
Is it a non-standard tuning? Obviously the 6th string is, but the rest?
Sorry, there's a problem with the score that I need to fix!

SteveL123
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:44 pm

Please ignore the scores above (the audio part is ok). I copied those measures from the original score and pasted in a new Musescore file w/o specifying an instrument and that was the result. Probably impossible to play on the guitar?

Score below should be correct by specifying guitar as the instrument.
Porro_M28-36_with_chord_diagrams.png
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celestemcc
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by celestemcc » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:55 pm

Whew! Yes, that first score was pretty strange, lol! This second one is not the easiest read -- not for me, anyway, but not terribly difficult to play (I know I'd just be slow at it). The half-note B in measure 6, isn't shown fingered in the chord chart but should be played on the 6th string with 2 or 1.
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Frank Nordberg
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by Frank Nordberg » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:10 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:59 pm
Sorry, there's a problem with the score that I need to fix!
It was notated in actual pitch. Standard guitar notation is an octave than it sounds

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Frank Nordberg
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by Frank Nordberg » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:22 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:59 pm
Can you sight read this first try?
I'm sure John Williams can. :P
I need to draw chord diagrams to help with the fingering. Is that bad?
Well, there are only seven chords so you shold be able to remember them without writing them down but I think you have the right idea for a passage like this: focus on the chord changes and the rest will follow by itself. If the diagrams help you with that, by all means use them.

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guitarrista
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by guitarrista » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm

I think it is doable. See this 'D minor' chord shape lurking there in almost all of the chords, with and without the highest note - you can use anchoring and same-shape shifting a lot in these chord changes.
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celestemcc
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by celestemcc » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:55 pm

It was notated in actual pitch. Standard guitar notation is an octave than it sounds
Oh yes! D'oh for me wondering about odd tuning... but I don't tend to think in Musescore terms, lol! :D
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SteveL123
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:32 pm

Frank Nordberg wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:10 pm
SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:59 pm
Sorry, there's a problem with the score that I need to fix!
It was notated in actual pitch. Standard guitar notation is an octave than it sounds
I didn't know that! Looked it up http://johncomino.tripod.com/middlec.htm Thanks for pointing it out.

SteveL123
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by SteveL123 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:51 pm

Frank Nordberg wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:22 pm
SteveL123 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:59 pm
Can you sight read this first try?
I'm sure John Williams can. :P
I need to draw chord diagrams to help with the fingering. Is that bad?
Well, there are only seven chords so you shold be able to remember them without writing them down but I think you have the right idea for a passage like this: focus on the chord changes and the rest will follow by itself. If the diagrams help you with that, by all means use them.
I made the chord diagrams to help me learn the fingering when I first learned those measures. I have them memorized now and do not have to look at them anymore when I practice the piece.

I was just wondering what goes on in someone's mind who's proficient in sight reading (without having the chord diagrams), can they actually put their fingers on the correct frets and play it with the correct tempo first time? That to me is impressive!

If anyone here can do that, please say so and claim your prize. :bravo:

SteveL123
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:28 am

celestemcc wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:55 pm
Whew! Yes, that first score was pretty strange, lol! This second one is not the easiest read -- not for me, anyway, but not terribly difficult to play (I know I'd just be slow at it). The half-note B in measure 6, isn't shown fingered in the chord chart but should be played on the 6th string with 2 or 1.
The half-note B in measure 6 is a repeat of measure 2, where it is fingered in the notation in measure 2 and is played by finger 1. That B half-note is part of the base line and is not played with the chord. Same for the C half-note in measures 3 and 7, it's part of the bass line.

Note: The chord diagrams are not annotated with fingering because I have not found a way to do it in Musescore.

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Tony Hyman
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by Tony Hyman » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:19 am

Do whatever it takes to get the job done. :D :D

dtoh
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Re: Are these difficult chord changes?

Post by dtoh » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:10 pm

I certainly could not sight read the chords, but I don't think it would be particularly difficult for someone who is better as at sight reading. When you sight read you don't figure out where each finger goes in a chord, you just recognize the chord (hopefully a few beats before you actually need to play it) and then you just play it. I'm at the point where I can easily recognize the common chords in the most common keys while playing in the lower positions. My goal with sight reading is to get where I recognize more chords in more keys all the way up the fretboard. In general, I think the ability to actually play the chords at tempo develops in parallel with the ability to recognize the chords at tempo.

If you're looking to be able to play the piece, I think the diagrams help. If you're looking to develop you're sight reading skills, I'd guess the diagrams actually hurt.

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