3rd finger control

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
Forum rules
IV Laws governing the quotation/citation of music


For discussion of studies, scales, arpeggios and theory.
andrew382
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by andrew382 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:57 pm

Larry McDonald wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:58 pm
Hi,
Just to be sure, we are talking about the left hand (because I see some trouble in the right, too), and you are counting the strings from the e closest to the ground, ie,; the 5th string is "A".

Bye the way, when you play two or more strings on the same fret, it is permissible to pronate a bit.

-Lare
Yes. Of course. By pronate you mean bend the wrist right? So what are the problems and how to correct them. Btw...I was way more tense than usual because I haven't recorded a piece on classical guitar yet. Wait...I did but it was a very long time ago.

User avatar
Larry McDonald
Teacher
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wi USA

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by Larry McDonald » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:26 pm

Hi again,
To be clear, I just don't see the third finger of the left hand ever damping the low E 6th string. So that isn't an issue.
Pronating refers to the counter-clockwise rotation of he wrist so that the first finger is closer to the neck than the 4th finger.

All the best,
Larry
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2018 Michael Thames "Ancient Dragon" Cd/Ir
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar and Theory Instructor

andrew382
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by andrew382 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:54 pm

Larry McDonald wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:26 pm
Hi again,
To be clear, I just don't see the third finger of the left hand ever damping the low E 6th string. So that isn't an issue.
Pronating refers to the counter-clockwise rotation of he wrist so that the first finger is closer to the neck than the 4th finger.

All the best,
Larry
You don't see it because I'm resting it on the D string. If I were to hold it above the strings it would sooner or later straighten and touch the low E string. And regarding the problems of my RH could you be more precise?

User avatar
Larry McDonald
Teacher
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wi USA

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by Larry McDonald » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Hi,
For most players, outside of a school in France, we encourage the student play off the left edge of their nails. You should seat the string on the flesh and the nail at the same time in the little gap on the left edge of the nail (called the subungle). It seems from the angle of the camera that your right hand is rotated to the "a" finger, so that the right side of your hand is closer to the guitar than the left.

You should understand that there have been some great guitarists who have played off the right side of their nails. But it is the exception and not the current standard. I have also seen a mixture where "i" and "m" are off the left side and 'a" is off the right that sounds good, too. In every case, though, the string has been seated the same, at the edge of the subungle.

Also, you should learn to flex the tip joint of the thumb; it makes for much less effort/tension.

Lastly, I previous posted that you should learn to keep the 3rd finger of the right-hand parked above the fingerboard, and avoid any unnecessary motion or tension, like resting it on the string, or fully flexed outward (or into the palm, for that matter).

-Lare
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2018 Michael Thames "Ancient Dragon" Cd/Ir
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar and Theory Instructor

User avatar
Larry McDonald
Teacher
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wi USA

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by Larry McDonald » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:34 pm

Here's a picture of the 4th finger playing Bb. Notice the lack of dysfunctional tension in the other fingers. Also, notice that the left hand is positioned in such a way that the fingertips are parked above the 3rd string. I call this the "Default Left-Hand Position".
-All the best,
Lare
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2018 Michael Thames "Ancient Dragon" Cd/Ir
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar and Theory Instructor

andrew382
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by andrew382 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:17 pm

Larry McDonald wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:34 pm
Here's a picture of the 4th finger playing Bb. Notice the lack of dysfunctional tension in the other fingers. Also, notice that the left hand is positioned in such a way that the fingertips are parked above the 3rd string. I call this the "Default Left-Hand Position".
-All the best,
Lare
Well if you happen to be near the second position try to play C# on the B string with 2nd finger and A on the G string with the 1st and try to maintain that default position. I want to see your hand doing it.

andrew382
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by andrew382 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:41 pm

Larry McDonald wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:26 pm
Hi again,
To be clear, I just don't see the third finger of the left hand ever damping the low E 6th string. So that isn't an issue.
Pronating refers to the counter-clockwise rotation of he wrist so that the first finger is closer to the neck than the 4th finger.

All the best,
Larry
I don't think I'm sure yet what you mean. Pronation means bringing the hand closer to the diagonal position Carlevaro described in his exercises books? So rotating the wrist (from the guitar player's perspective) towards right or left? Or rotating so that the 1st finger goes inside or outside?

User avatar
Larry McDonald
Teacher
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wi USA

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by Larry McDonald » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:08 am

Hi Andrew,
Compare the picture below with the picture above. You can see in the first picture that the finger tips are in a line in the default, unrotated position. In the picture below you can see that the forth finger is rotated away from the neck and the first finger is more over the 4th string (although the finger tips are still mostly in a line). We say that the hand is pronated in picture 2. As a teacher, I examine the line of the knuckles, which is a better gauge of rotation.

When the hand is rotated clockwise, with the 4th finger closer to the neck than the first finger, we say that the hand is supinated.

All the best,
Lare
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2018 Michael Thames "Ancient Dragon" Cd/Ir
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar and Theory Instructor

andrew382
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: 3rd finger control

Post by andrew382 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:10 pm

Larry McDonald wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:08 am
Hi Andrew,
Compare the picture below with the picture above. You can see in the first picture that the finger tips are in a line in the default, unrotated position. In the picture below you can see that the forth finger is rotated away from the neck and the first finger is more over the 4th string (although the finger tips are still mostly in a line). We say that the hand is pronated in picture 2. As a teacher, I examine the line of the knuckles, which is a better gauge of rotation.

When the hand is rotated clockwise, with the 4th finger closer to the neck than the first finger, we say that the hand is supinated.

All the best,
Lare
I see. I was guessing you meant that but I was not sure. However you're playing the double stop with 23 and not with 12. With the latter is fairly more difficult.

Return to “Classical Guitar technique”