Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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barcod
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Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by barcod » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:37 pm

I have run into this piece recently and have a question on an alternative technique for the arpeggios that make up most of the first part of the piece.
arpeggio.png
Does anyone play the first base of the triple which is the B apoyando, while the treble is tirando? The YouTube renditions I have seen play tirando all around and I for some reason feel like challenging myself - this is a technique I want to learn in Flamenco where playing apoyando base with tirando treble can be found. I think it sounds nice but wanted to hear your opinion on this.
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Terpfan
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by Terpfan » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:50 am

I don't know... it is tough enough not doing it. For myself no.

richtm
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by richtm » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:26 am

I play everything tirando and would recommend practicing it very slowly from the beginning.If you want to inforce a tone again practive slowly by making a pause before the tone and then briniging it out loudly.
I see more questions if or if not to stop the bass notes to make it more rhytmical...
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Ernest Köröskenyi 1977 Cedar; Pauline Bernabe Especial 2007 Spruce, 2012 Cedar; Andreas Kirmse 2017 Cedar DT; Philipp Lerche Torres 2018 Spruce

richtm
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by richtm » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:29 am


starts at around 4:30
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Ernest Köröskenyi 1977 Cedar; Pauline Bernabe Especial 2007 Spruce, 2012 Cedar; Andreas Kirmse 2017 Cedar DT; Philipp Lerche Torres 2018 Spruce

Rasqeo
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by Rasqeo » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:41 am

I play it apoyando but I mainly play flamenco now anyway. It’s a good technique to develop. You then have more options depending on the sound you want to achieve.

robert e
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by robert e » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:34 pm

I use apoyando thumb for the first E and the B. So why not the next E? Maybe I should try it...

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guitarrista
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by guitarrista » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:49 pm

You have another option, which exists in some arrangements of this piece, and I personally like it a lot more as it is more flamenco: play the four notes separately as 4 32ths. I mean the B G# B E (instead of B and G# played together and G# B E played as a triplet 16ths).

In this case this may also make it easier to play for you.

If you are curious as to who has arranged the piece that way, I can dig that info out and post it.
Konstantin
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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:52 am

guitarrista wrote:If you are curious as to who has arranged the piece that way ...
Parkening and Abe immediately spring to mind.

On another tack:

I've long been puzzled as to why guitarists take such an agressive line on this piece given its title. I came to it through the piano where the initial markings are quiet and melancholy. Any flamenco characteristics possibly alluded to in the sub-title are surely subtle and understated.

We appear these days to assume that malagueña means one thing - but, at the time of composition, might there have been folk songs of greater variety emanating from the region? I'm just posing the question - I don't know the answer.

In any case - the first section of Rumores barely rises above mezzo piano, dropping right down to pianissimo preceding the slower cantando which itself does not rise beyond a mezzo forte ... at most.

There follows the Lento with its brief (a mere five notes) declamatory cry. This call, rendered with a startling fortissimo, immediately drops back to a quite distinct and deliberate piano which the composer marks sempre i.e. always quiet for the tempo primo.

The brief - and slow - cadenza offers one more moment of increased volume (duration less than one beat) before returning to piano for the recapitulation.

The whole work has an air of contemplation tinged with presentiment, the cantando passages perhaps suggesting nostalgic reminiscence whilst the culminating diminuendo reaffirms a sense of presage ...

Then there's the question of tempo - if we take the title at face value just how should one represent murmurings in the cove?

richtm
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by richtm » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:54 am


here again more like a Flamenco piece - and a lot of rest strokes involved
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Rasqeo
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by Rasqeo » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:07 am

I’m also not a fan of the aggressive ‘flamenco-ised’ versions. They’re not flamenco, nor are they what Albeniz wrote. I imagine people play that way because it sounds impressive (to some at least). I think there is also some misunderstanding of the title of the piece due to translations. I’ve heard people talking about waves crashing against the cove, which implies a loud, aggressive sound but the actual translation is “murmurs”, which suggests a far more mellow sound, also borne out by the indications in the score. I suspect many players using transcriptions won’t have even looked at the original score.

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mike.janel
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by mike.janel » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:38 am

In the mind of the general public, "spanish" music and flamenco are synonymous.
Nothing the composer that passed away 110 years ago had to say can prevent performers from making the guitar scream.
We can see how even composers that lived in the early 20th century, were guitarists and recorded their music are totally misunderstood.
We can call this evolution if you want.
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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:03 pm

mike.janel wrote:Nothing the composer that passed away 110 years ago had to say can prevent performers from making the guitar scream.
No - and that's fine - we can choose to play anything just the way we please. My question was more about the (seeming) omnipresence of the more strident presentation.
mike.janel wrote:We can call this evolution if you want.
Ha ha - i'd rather not. I think it's simply a thoughtless approach - still, I wonder why our teachers are not more musically informed.

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David Norton
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by David Norton » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:12 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:52 am

I've long been puzzled as to why guitarists take such an agressive line on this piece given its title. I came to it through the piano where the initial markings are quiet and melancholy. Any flamenco characteristics possibly alluded to in the sub-title are surely subtle and understated.

Then there's the question of tempo - if we take the title at face value just how should one represent murmurings in the cove?
Here's Alicia De Larrocha's (the Gran Dame of Spanish piano) version:

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guitarrista
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by guitarrista » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:22 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:52 am
guitarrista wrote:If you are curious as to who has arranged the piece that way ...
Parkening and Abe immediately spring to mind.
Also Angelo Amato and Antonio Lozano Garcia.
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Rognvald
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Re: Rumores de la Caleta by Albeniz

Post by Rognvald » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:15 pm

"I've long been puzzled as to why guitarists take such an agressive line on this piece given its title. I came to it through the piano where the initial markings are quiet and melancholy. Any flamenco characteristics possibly alluded to in the sub-title are surely subtle and understated." Mark Clifton Gautier


Perhaps, Mark, Pepe Romero's version is closer to your ideal than those previously presented. Here's Pepe's version which to my ears is much less frenetic and has a more natural flow than the guitarists previously presented. It is closer to the "pianistic" concept which Alfonso Gomez plays beautifully. Playing again . . . Rognvald

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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