Buzz

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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lennarton
Posts: 197
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Location: Sweden

Buzz

Post by lennarton » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:55 pm

What is the reason that there is some buzz on string 4/5/6 (between frets 1,2, 3 when pressing the string middle between frets an not very close to the fret.
How found this buzz on some guitars - on other guitars its ok to press down in the middle without any buzz.

What can be done? String high? Harder string?
LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED

Terpfan
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:33 am

Re: Buzz

Post by Terpfan » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:59 pm

Ask the luthiers

OldPotter
Posts: 1955
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Location: Channel Islands

Re: Buzz

Post by OldPotter » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:51 pm

If your action ( string height) is a bit low then the strings can "buzz" on the next fret up. If you press firmly right behind the fret, then the string is forced up a tiny amount, just a few microns. ( I haven't actually measured it) This enough to stop a buzz. The cure is to raise the action at the saddle by a fraction of a millimetre. I would start with 0.25 mm and see what happens. It only needs to be for the bass strings. Sometimes a hard string with less amplitude can help, but I would prefer to keep to a string that I like and raise the saddle.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

simonm
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Re: Buzz

Post by simonm » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:56 pm

In principle you should be fretting pretty much on top of the fret and not mid-way between the frets.

And as OldPotter says.

Mark567
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:19 pm
Location: SE NC USA

Re: Buzz

Post by Mark567 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:24 am

I've been chasing the same buzz for a long time and just recently figured out what it is.

Read this link viewtopic.php?f=11&t=57112&start=30#p624637

This fixed my buzz issue completely. I used a set of cutting torch tip cleaners to round out the nut slots (and lower the action at the same time, which made a world of difference in playability and tuning) and the buzzing is gone. The details are in his post but what I found to be my problem was the shape of the slots, as he mentions. Mine where V shaped which was more or less grabbing the windings of the bass strings.

Anyway check it out, it worked for me.

Good luck

lennarton
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Buzz

Post by lennarton » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:53 pm

Many thanks for great advices.
I have changed strings (harder tension) (4,5,6) and its better now.
Not top 100 % but much better than earlier. Will try to raise the saddle a little.
LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED

OldPotter
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Channel Islands

Re: Buzz

Post by OldPotter » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:40 pm

Will try to raise the saddle a little.
A strip of plastic from a soft drink bottle is likely to be around 0.2-0.3 mm. I would try one and then perhaps two tucked under the saddle. Then make a new saddle or get one made, or, if it doesn't affect the sound too much then it may be good enough.

I always find it hard to know if my guitar is sounding better or just different. I am aware that I hear "changes" just when removing and refitting the same strings. I replaced my tuners a couple of weeks ago and heard a difference, though I know that it shouldn't be detectable. I'm not sure if I am just imagining it......
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

lennarton
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Buzz

Post by lennarton » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:17 pm

Does the strip of plastic go under the whole saddle or is it enough to go under the 3 strings that are buzzing?
LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED

OldPotter
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Channel Islands

Re: Buzz

Post by OldPotter » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:55 pm

I think I would try 1 strip under the whole saddle, but there is room to experiment. If the buzz disappears with just half the saddle raised then it gives a good starting point for the dimensions of a new saddle. Without a solid support under the whole saddle then I might expect the sound on the middle strings to suffer. No harm in trying it. I often make an arched top to the saddle but it does depend on so many factors. If you are getting a luthier to make a saddle I would go whatever they feel is good.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

OldPotter
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Channel Islands

Re: Buzz

Post by OldPotter » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:59 pm

I think I would try a 1 strip under the whole saddle first, then experiment.


edit;I thought I had lost the above post and tried again......
Last edited by OldPotter on Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

dtoh
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Buzz

Post by dtoh » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:48 am

If you simply consider the geometry,

1) If you are getting fret buzz when fretting on the fret, it means your action is too low.

2) If you are getting fret buzz when fretting between the frets, it means your action is too high.

OldPotter
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Channel Islands

Re: Buzz

Post by OldPotter » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:45 pm

2) If you are getting fret buzz when fretting between the frets, it means your action is too high.
Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding this, but this does not seem correct. To get a fret buzz in that way would mean the saddle was more than 25mm above the top.....

Or was it a joke which I have just misunderstood?
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

dtoh
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Buzz

Post by dtoh » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:23 pm

OldPotter wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:45 pm
2) If you are getting fret buzz when fretting between the frets, it means your action is too high.
Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding this, but this does not seem correct. To get a fret buzz in that way would mean the saddle was more than 25mm above the top.....

Or was it a joke which I have just misunderstood?
Draw yourself a picture.

OldPotter
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Channel Islands

Re: Buzz

Post by OldPotter » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:08 pm

Draw yourself a picture.
Yes, I put a straight edge on my guitar. I can't express it any clearer than that. I just disagree.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

dtoh
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Buzz

Post by dtoh » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:05 am

OldPotter wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:08 pm
Draw yourself a picture.
Yes, I put a straight edge on my guitar. I can't express it any clearer than that. I just disagree.
You may be assuming that...
1. The string is solidly attached to the fretboard where fretted.
2. The vertical movement of the string is not important, and/or
3. Buzz can not occur if the string is in contact with the fret when at rest.

The string bends at an angle on the fret. When the action is higher, the angle is less and this reduces the pressure of the string on the fret and makes it more likely to buzz.

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