Or, much easier, play a C major scale and start on e instead of c.sulponticello wrote:So, take any major scale, and run it through this structure, and you will be playing the phrygian scale. e.g. to play E phrygian, take the E major scale, and flatten the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th notes.
There are two ways to consider the modes, one is as you have described, but if you look at it from a structural perspective:sulponticello wrote:A phrygian is the F major scale, only beginning on A.
The phrygian mode is always the third mode of a diatonic major scale.
But it is nice to also know the structure; the structure for the phrygian mode is:
R b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 R
So, take any major scale, and run it through this structure, and you will be playing the phrygian scale.
e.g. to play E phrygian, take the E major scale, and flatten the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th notes.
I respectfully disagree: the intervals just slide "one to the right" for each mode, and what you cite are not really "flats" but diminished notes, which vary with each key. I mean, I could do both, easily enough, but the semantic issue remains, and it seems saying "E Phrygian means playing E Major with diminished 2367" separates scales/keys from the modes, whereas I THOUGHT modes were an integral part of the scale/key. This is where I struggle from a theory perspective, not in merely knowing the fingering of the modes.sulponticello wrote:Mark learning the intervallic structure (e.g. W H) is too complex - you will have hundreds of patterns in your head to remember. Your thinking of the E phrygian issue isn't correct.
Best to know all the major scales, and just remember the modal structures.
I'll list them for you:
ionian = the major scale
dorian = b3 and b7
phrygian = b2 b3, b6 and b7
lydian = #4
mixolydian = b7
aeolian = b3 b6 b7
locrian = b2 b3 b5 b6 and b7
This is by far the easiest method of learning the modes, as there is less to remember this way.
My thinking on intervals as they relate to modes of keys is absolutely correct.sulponticello wrote:Your thinking of intervals is wrong.
If you are thinking in intervallic terms, then the intervals are minor, and not diminished. When a perfect interval is flattened it is called a diminished interval. You are flattening a major interval - a flattened major interval is called a minor interval.
I was intentionally seperating the keys from the modes, as this is the best way to think of them.
However, in simple terms - a mode is derived by displacing the starting point of a scale without changing it's interval formula. e.g. if we take C major and start on a note other than C, we have a mode of the C major scale.
The important part to realise when thinking in relative terms is that relative to the relative major scale, the intervallic structure hasn't been altered in any way.
What makes the, for example, phrygian mode have a b2 b3 etc is that when we compare a phrygian mode to its' relative major scale (e.g. comparing E phrygian to E major), we have altered the structure accordingly.
The modal structures are relative to the major scale.
Hi Mark-mark96 wrote:
My thinking on intervals as they relate to modes of keys is absolutely correct.
It seems to me you are saying we are both correct, technically ("...intentionally separating keys from the modes...", "However, in simple terms..."), but the common usage of modes is as it is compared to its relative Major. Correct? Is this the majority opinion? If so, then when someone says to play something "A Phrygian", I will know to play A Major with diminished 2367. Correct?
I am not trying to argue, I am trying to arrive at what is the commonly understood usage of mode descriptions so i can adjust my thinking accordingly.
Thank you for your discussion,