Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

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glassynails
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Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by glassynails » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:30 pm

Is there an original Torroba manuscript that people work from besides the GSP version(s) of the Castles of Spain Suite? I know that Segovia had access to them, but are there alternatives to the Ferguson transcribed GSP versions? For example, I know that Ferguson sites the originals. How do these people get access to these original documents?


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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Polifemo de Oro » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:04 am

Yes, Glassy. I have them locked up in my vault. And I am NOT sharing them.

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David Norton
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by David Norton » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:56 pm

The "originals" which Jim Ferguson spoke of are the ones published in Spain around 1970 or so, which are photocopies of FMT's writing (or, possibly, the writing of a copyist). They are not typeset in the way Schott or Berben might do it.
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Polifemo de Oro » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:15 pm

Glassy, I wasn't kidding--I really do have them.

These were published by Editorial Cadencia, Madrid (1973-1976).

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Sharon Vizcaino
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Sharon Vizcaino » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:52 pm

...um, any way I could somehow get my hands on the original for Torija? Not a fan of the version I'm using (one I got off the internet). Usually, I'd just ask my guitar teacher, but I don't think he has them, as he was kind of surprised I found the sheet music on the internet at all. Shame he doesn't have them, as he says he was there with Segovia when Torroba gave them to him...
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Weed
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Weed » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:26 pm

Is there a definitive order for the individual pieces in "Castles of Spain"? I've seen them listed in several ways in the sheet music, sometimes into Vols I and 2, and sometimes as a single set. Similarly with recordings.

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David Norton
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by David Norton » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:27 pm

Weed wrote:Is there a definitive order for the individual pieces in "Castles of Spain"? I've seen them listed in several ways in the sheet music, sometimes into Vols I and 2, and sometimes as a single set. Similarly with recordings.
No there's not, unless you opt to consider the sequence of the eight which Segovia recorded as "definitive". However, his concert programs of the same time period show that he would perform 2 3 or 4 of them in various sequences, and often as not these were intermixed with OTHER Torroba pieces such as Albada, Nocturno, Burgalesa, Madronos. I've never seen a Segovia recital program where he did all eight, in any sequence. Just on the LP.
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Scot Tremblay » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:54 pm

Are there only the 8 in the manuscript? I heard it mentioned a couple years back that there were originally something like 4 or 7 more but were tossed aside for reasons unknown. After all, there a lot more than 8 magnificent castles in Spain. Does anybody know anything about this or is it just more guitarist wishful thinking?
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by pogmoor » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:52 pm

This thread has been moved from Public Space and several posts removed. The music in question is a published edition of works by a composer who is less than 70 years dead, so it is subject to copyright. Forum rules do not permit requests or offers to share copyrighted music.
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by David Norton » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:02 pm

Scot Tremblay wrote:Are there only the 8 in the manuscript? I heard it mentioned a couple years back that there were originally something like 4 or 7 more but were tossed aside for reasons unknown. After all, there a lot more than 8 magnificent castles in Spain. Does anybody know anything about this or is it just more guitarist wishful thinking?

There are 15 in the full set. Segovia recorded 8 of them, these were published by GSI as "Volume 1" edited by Jim Ferguson. "Volume 2" has the other seven, edited by Michael Lorimer. These are generally more technically demanding, and Lorimer offers the position that it is possible that, at age 75 or so, Segovia was unable to tackle them. The eight he chose are certainly a good cross section.

Ana Vidovic and David Russell have each done the full set of 15, albeit in differing sequences.

And much the same situation (no specified order) exists for the underplayed cycle "Puertas de Madrid", which is similar in concept and scope to Castillos de España.
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Scot Tremblay » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:22 pm

Thank you , David. That is interesting. Having my head in the 19th century, as I most often do, I find there to be a void in my knowledge of some of the material from the early to third quarter of the 20th century. Very telling is that the gap appears to be associated with the repertoire and editions of a certain Spanish guitarist...that's a pretty sad thing to admit, actually :?
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by David Norton » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:04 pm

Scot Tremblay wrote:Very telling is that the gap appears to be associated with the repertoire and editions of a certain Spanish guitarist...that's a pretty sad thing to admit, actually :?
That's OK, Scot. Not everyone can be familiar with the repertoire and editions of Regino Sainz de la Maza. (Or were you instead referring to his brother, Eduardo?) :lol:
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Scot Tremblay » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:34 pm

Hey, I like the Sainz brothers....it's that other guy, what's his name?...Named himself after a city in Castile & Leon. You probably heard of him even if he was kind of obscure... :roll:

I'll have to search out the rest of the "Castles". I quite like the "original 8".
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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Hermx » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:43 pm

The 1973 Editorial Cadencia by Zen-On contains the following 14 pieces:
Alba de Tormes (Trova)
Alcaniz (Festiva)
Alcazar de Segovia (Llamada)
Calatrava (Festiva)
Javier (Evocacion)
Manzanares del Real (A la Moca Fermosa)
Olite (Fiesta del Rey Noble)
Redaba
Romance de los Pinos / Montemayor (Contemplacion)
Sigüenza (La Infantina Duerme)
Simancas (Juglaresca)
Torija (Elegia)
Turegano (Serranilla)
Zafra (Fantasmas)

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Re: Original Torroba Castles of Spain manuscripts?

Post by Hermx » Sun May 12, 2019 4:31 pm

The 1973 Editorial cadencia edition is now with Zen-on. If you search for „Torroba Anthology Zen-on“, you may be able to find it. This Torroba anthology contains Sonatina, Castles of Spain and Concierto de Castilla.

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