revisiting guitar supports

Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists, Aches and Pains, Injuries, etc...
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Denis Paradis
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Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Denis Paradis » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:53 am

Just got myself a "Tenuto" slightly smaller than the Gitano (Although I cannot compare, apart from the pictures I saw on the forum of the latter), holds very well, has four suction cups side-by-side in two rows, there is also a hinge mechanism (just a screw really) that lets you angle the holding part on your calf.

What is really nice is that it easily fits in the hardshell carrying case's pocket (inside the case).

Bye, bye stool :bye:
“Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music”

- Rachmaninov

Trev

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Trev » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:25 pm

Brent Hutto wrote:I'm not trying to be bloody-minded or tell others how to live their life but do I understand correctly that you store, and presumably transport, your guitar with a hard object wedged between one side of the guitar and the side of your case? Isn't that just asking for a larger variant of the dreaded "key crack" in the event of a moderate impact from that direction? And if I picture it aright that's facing "downward" toward the side on which the case lands when you place it on the floor.

No, I'm not comfortable with that concept at all I'm afraid. Obviously the odds of damage are low or people wouldn't do it and lord knows I'm not one to treat a guitar like a baby. But still...Ye Gods!
LOL ... I can appreciate your concern. The Gitano has 4 points of contact with the side of the guitar when attached, two suction cups and two standoffs made of a similar material. There is about a quarter inch gap between the leg, and the plate that the suction cups attach to when the Gitano is folded. There is actually more air between the side of the guitar and the inside edge of the case than solid metal or rubbery material. I suspect that if an impact were severe enough to cause the Gitano to damage the guitar, it would probably damage the guitar without the Gitano installed as well. Having said that, it's very easy to remove and re-attach the Gitano if there is any concern, and the folded Gitano will fit nicely inside the storage area of the case due to its compact size.

Brent Hutto

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Brent Hutto » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:45 pm

Trev,

Thanks for the description. Sounds like you folks are talking about cases with more room than mine between the side of the guitar and side of the case. Heck, if the Gitano keeps the guitar more firmly in place and eliminates the play inside the case that may be a net gain. The case my guitar came with is a really tight press fit, the TKL case I use now is almost as tight so there's not really an option for leaving anything on my guitar anyway.

Hunt-man

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Hunt-man » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:48 pm

I just got an Ergoplay Troster and I really like it. I have not tried the other one. I got my Troster at Dream guitars online at a fair price.

Olarte

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Olarte » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:28 pm

Eden7c wrote:Just got myself a "Tenuto" slightly smaller than the Gitano (Although I cannot compare, apart from the pictures I saw on the forum of the latter), holds very well, has four suction cups side-by-side in two rows, there is also a hinge mechanism (just a screw really) that lets you angle the holding part on your calf.

What is really nice is that it easily fits in the hardshell carrying case's pocket (inside the case).

Bye, bye stool :bye:
Can you also fold it and put the guitar away with it attached the way the Gitano works?

I could not find a place to buy it or a price... where did you get it and how much did it charge?

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Blondie
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Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Blondie » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:27 pm

I am just under 6ft tall. I found the Gitano did very little to raise the height of the guitar body sufficiently. Any attempt to do so merely put the neck at a steeper angle. The Ergo is much better in ths respect.

I would prefer a support solution that raises the height of the guitar body AND situates the guitar more centrally in respect to the body, like the trad. flamenco position which is actually remarkably similar to Aguado and Sor's position (see Mastering Guitar Technique: Process and Essence, for a discussion on this subject with pictures). I find that footstool, dynarette cushion, ergo play, gitano etc all place the waist of the guitar (and centre of the guitar) over your left leg (or right if you wanted to).

If anyone knows of a support that does what I want, please let me know! I think the old A frame support used to do this.
Last edited by Blondie on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GuitarVlog

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by GuitarVlog » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:31 pm

Blondie wrote:I find that footstool, dynarette cushion, ergo play, gitano etc all place the waist of the guitar (and centre of the guitar) over your left leg (or right if you wanted to).
Really? My Ergoplay Troster places the soundhole right at the center of my body.

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Blondie
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Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Blondie » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:41 pm

GuitarVlog wrote: Really? My Ergoplay Troster places the soundhole right at the center of my body.
I have an orginal Ergo play, which might have something to do with it? I have not used the new designs.

I just checked i the mirror and there's not much in it admittedly, and the Ergo play is the best of all the solutions I mentioned for this, but to get the guitar where I really want it I would have to rest the 'corner' of the Ergo play on my left thigh as opposed to the curved foam bit. Unfortunately this is not too stable and Iwould have to REALLY spread my right leg out to make room for the lower bout.

My main position at the moment is with the footstool under the right leg, but thats not great for high position left hand configurations.

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Denis Paradis
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Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Denis Paradis » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:15 pm

olarte wrote:
Can you also fold it and put the guitar away with it attached the way the Gitano works?

I could not find a place to buy it or a price... where did you get it and how much did it charge?
Yes it does fold up but my guitar case is just a tad too tight to leave it in place on the body but like I said it fits inside the case folded. The suction cups are easy to remove there are tiny handles just lift them and voilà (see pictures in the pdf below).

I bought it there at Salon de la guitare but that's a Canadian retailer, then again I have been purchasing internationally for years (mainly from the states but in europe too) so this should not stop you :wink:

I'll let the owner inform you of the price.
http://www.*** The forum is entirely free and free of advertising, commercial online sites are boycotted ***.com/accessories/Tenuto_promo.pdf
“Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music”

- Rachmaninov

Spektrograf

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Spektrograf » Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:45 am

The Gitano and Ergoplay supports look interesting. I've been using the Dynarette, but find that I need to raise my leg by about an inch more (currently using a paperback book) to get it the positioning right. Aside from that, it works fine for me, though... depending on what I'm wearing at the time, it can slip a bit and slide down the leg after playing for a while. Anyone know if those suction cups would interact with certain finishes over time? (I'm thinking of how those old wall brackets would soften nitrocelluose finishes...)

hesson11
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Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by hesson11 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:22 am

Spektrograf wrote:I've been using the Dynarette, but find that I need to raise my leg by about an inch more (currently using a paperback book) to get it the positioning right.
Any chance you can lower your seat a bit? That would have the same effect as raising your leg. (An adjustable office chair does the trick for me.)

-Bob

Spektrograf

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by Spektrograf » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:04 am

Hey Bob... I had thought about that. The only problem is I'm already at a 90-deg bend at the knee. Any lower, then the bend gets smaller than 90-deg. The paperback book seems to be a fair compromise in ergonomics for the moment. :) Thx for the tip, though!

nylonthanh

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by nylonthanh » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:33 am

hi i just wanted to share my experiences with supports...

I started developing pain from guitar playing and my teacher pointed out how thee footstool limits my body range. I tried his ergo play and felt more free and secure... when I was playing at a coffee shop a friend took a picture of me and I noticed how i was leaning the entire time!

I switched from the original ergoplay to the troster model or whatever the super adjustable one is... I never felt comfortable as my body must be differentt purportions than most people. I have freakishly long arms so the guitar seems very close to me no matter where it was. Scott tennant helped me out with some posture stuff and told me about the ergo play's new suction cups... I really hated this thing because i popped off WHILE I was playing in the masterclass ( it didn't effect much).

Suction cups = risk of it popping off... especially if you play a lot and don't want to put that adhesive tape on your guitar. I had a french polish on my guitar and it would ruin it....

turns out the original ergo play started to put scratches and dents in the guitar because it would pop off or just be angled too much... Never felt comforable... the A frame is POS. It's great when I'm wearing shorts (on my skin) but would slide off like no tomorrow. I had 2 ergo plays (a couple different replacement suction cups), a gitano (never felt right, wrong angle for my hands ... kept impinging my shoulder because it was too high up) , an A frame, and the Dynarette cushion. I've even tried the Aria support which is pretty sturdy (no suction cups) but I didn't get a chance to play around with it much.

I just use a dynarette cushion for performance and prractice and sometimes a footstool on performance. The cushion's not perfect but it doesn't scratch and my guitar doesnt slide off. there are two different size of cushions. I first tried to roll a towel to get an estimated size of the cushion and ended up going with the small (even though Im 6' tall). It's more comfortable and is where my arm naturally comes to play (my long freakish arms).

For adjustability in height, I use a piano bench.I got it on e - b a y cheap. Iuse to use an old fold up chair I took from my parents because it lowered me just a little and I took it when I played. if there isn't a bench where I'm playing i just suck it up and use whatever. my hill guitar has a strap that I use but barrious a pain to play on it standing up...

pasqbian

Re: revisitting guitar supports

Post by pasqbian » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:43 pm

I also like the dynarette, though it is hard to travel with. It doesn't "fit" anywhere! But it is comfortable and stable for performance.

segoviajr07 wrote:I am a big fan of the Dynarette large cushion, works fine for me, I am 5'10" tall, very proportional (I can usually wear the clothes that they dress the mannequins in at the department stores...)

I have used all sorts of stuff, but everything leaves a mark on your guitar except the Dynarette. I would give it a try and be sure it isn't for you before sticking anything on your guitar and trying to force an instrument into the case with this thing stuck on it.

I am also patiently waiting for an inventor to come up with a Dynarette-sized play on air device like this:
[url]http://www.***%20The%20forum%20is%20entirely%20free%20and%20free%20of%20advertising,%20commercial%20online%20sites%20are%20boycotted%20***.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3A11968941%2Cp_4%3APlay%20on%20Air&page=1[/url]
so I can fit it un-inflated in my case.

Philip Sheldrake

Re: revisiting guitar supports

Post by Philip Sheldrake » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:52 pm

Thought I'd add my two pence worth. I used a footstool for years, but I am sure it made my back problems (discectomy) worse. I now use a Dynarette when I'm sitting on an ordinary chair, and find it both comfortable and secure. However, my preference all round is for a much lower chair - I have a nursing chair which is ideal - and well cushioned to suit my aged bones. Both options have the effect of reducing the imbalance in the lower back brought about by using a footstool.

I tried a sucker-cup type thingy years ago - loathed it - it felt very unstable.

Overall, you use what helps you play best and damages your back least!

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