foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists, Aches and Pains, Injuries, etc...
mmapag
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:33 pm
Location: Philadelphia Area

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by mmapag » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:38 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Pede wrote:I am playing CG for 35 years, some years I studied 8 hours a day. I never had problems with my back.
And always using the footstool.
I have no problems because I always alternate resting the guitar on the left and right leg.
Now I am curious how it is to use other things than the footstool. I just don't like those strange ugly things clamping on my instruments. Playing in standing position...is that possible for all the guitarrepertoire?
Does anyone have experience with the cushions?
99% of recordings I made in standing position.

Please take a look here -
https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/andr ... d157639260

When I perform it mostly in standing position too.
Beautiful work Andrei! Standing is obviously not having any detrimental effect on your playing. :lol:

PS: Impy, responded to you PM. Hope you got it.
'13 Esteve 7 SM
'75 Takamine 132 S

Pede
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:01 am
Location: Friesland, Holland

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by Pede » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:46 pm

I did have a look on your YT channel. Don't think playing in standing position works for most people, because most need some handhold, me included. You apparently do not.
Gert Petersen 2000, Spr-BRW, Felipe Conde FP17 Negro, Santos Hernandez 1932 S-BRW, Asturias 10 string s-IRW, Ramirez 1a Especial 2014, Bernabe M5 S, Bert Kwakkel Merula 1982, Baroque guitar by Martin de Witte

AndreiKrylov

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:09 pm

mmapag wrote:
AndreiKrylov wrote:
Pede wrote:I am playing CG for 35 years, some years I studied 8 hours a day. I never had problems with my back.
And always using the footstool.
I have no problems because I always alternate resting the guitar on the left and right leg.
Now I am curious how it is to use other things than the footstool. I just don't like those strange ugly things clamping on my instruments. Playing in standing position...is that possible for all the guitarrepertoire?
Does anyone have experience with the cushions?
99% of recordings I made in standing position.

Please take a look here -
https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/andr ... d157639260

When I perform it mostly in standing position too.
Beautiful work Andrei! Standing is obviously not having any detrimental effect on your playing. :lol:

PS: Impy, responded to you PM. Hope you got it.
Thanks for your compliment mmapag!

AndreiKrylov

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:14 pm

Pede wrote:I did have a look on your YT channel. Don't think playing in standing position works for most people, because most need some handhold, me included. You apparently do not.
Please clarify how handhold connected with sitting or standing position.
Please explain what exactly ( in details) do you mean by that.
Thanks!

Pede
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:01 am
Location: Friesland, Holland

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by Pede » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:35 pm

I mean I think the guitar is not so stable in standing position as in sitting. It is less fixed. I see that your playing looks quite 'loose' and your moving of the hands and arms is relative wide, so for you it works. But I think most people need more a more fixed feeling.
Is this more clear? Sorry for my English...
Gert Petersen 2000, Spr-BRW, Felipe Conde FP17 Negro, Santos Hernandez 1932 S-BRW, Asturias 10 string s-IRW, Ramirez 1a Especial 2014, Bernabe M5 S, Bert Kwakkel Merula 1982, Baroque guitar by Martin de Witte

Pede
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:01 am
Location: Friesland, Holland

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by Pede » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:39 pm

Otherwise I also play baroque guitar, with strap and in that case its no problem playing standing.
Last concert `I played one peace also standing and that felt great (I also could walk near the audience).
So maybe it could work also on he CG....
Gert Petersen 2000, Spr-BRW, Felipe Conde FP17 Negro, Santos Hernandez 1932 S-BRW, Asturias 10 string s-IRW, Ramirez 1a Especial 2014, Bernabe M5 S, Bert Kwakkel Merula 1982, Baroque guitar by Martin de Witte

AndreiKrylov

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by AndreiKrylov » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:53 pm

Pede wrote:Otherwise I also play baroque guitar, with strap and in that case its no problem playing standing.
Last concert `I played one peace also standing and that felt great (I also could walk near the audience).
So maybe it could work also on he CG....
Thanks for your explanation Pede!
If it works for you with baroque guitar, then it probably would work for classical too.
It does not work for me if I don;t have guitar with strap connected with buttons on the right place. For example if I use button on the bottom and connect strap with headstock where tuning keys are then guitar as very unstable and it is not convenient to play.
If I fix strap on rosette (there ways to do it) - feels unstable again.
I tried to put strap around guitar - unstable too and also not good for the sound because this way strap limits vibrations of the guitar...
I have a small video there I show that if strap buttons put in the right place - guitar is very stable and it is no difference between standing or sitting in this matter.
It could help to alleviate or eliminate problems of some people with pain in back. neck, shoulders etc.
But i think until it would be socially and culturally accepted not as something strange and not proper as now but as normal and proper position for classical guitarist, as good as sitting for technique, but more ergonomical, majority of people would reject it...

Again, this is all about ergonomics. As far as technique - no difference.

I think the best would be to accept standing/moving position as normal as standard as sitting is and then maybe to play in both positions alternating them from time to time and it should help people with back problems. For some people who do not have back problems, and wish to continue to play sitting - would be nice to accept standing position as normal and standard as a sitting one.

Pede
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:01 am
Location: Friesland, Holland

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by Pede » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:59 pm

I agree that playing standing should be accepted as a normal alternative for the sitting position. your explanation helps for how to find the right way. I believe that it can work if you practise it.
There even is a theorbo-player on YT who plays standing, and the instrument is as tall as an average man!
Gert Petersen 2000, Spr-BRW, Felipe Conde FP17 Negro, Santos Hernandez 1932 S-BRW, Asturias 10 string s-IRW, Ramirez 1a Especial 2014, Bernabe M5 S, Bert Kwakkel Merula 1982, Baroque guitar by Martin de Witte

andylegrand

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by andylegrand » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:30 am

AndreiKrylov wrote:Why not to play standing?
sitting with guitar is bad for someone's back ...
A fair question given our bad backs. For me, there are two reasons:
1) my left hand position is not where I like it when I play standing and with a strap.

2) nor is the volume and tone of the guitar, due to the back of the guitar against my body. (I've a good bit of surface area)

Strictly my preferences. I have, however, moved my guitar to my right leg - when using the NeckUp, I can play free of pain and in a comfortable position.


.

AndreiKrylov

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:50 pm

I think if you feel comfortable and have no any issues and tried to play standing and feel that it is not convenient for you, then certainly you should play in the position which you feel the best for yourself.
I had discussion about your points in other (Why not to stand with guitar),
anyway .
1. No difference for position of left and right hand if you hold your guitar on buttons and strap in proper way in proper position (while standing).
2. When you sitting with guitar your hands hold guitar the same way as you standing and your body touches back of guitar as well (maybe little bit less)
Myself I could not hear any difference with my ears (between sound when standing or sitting) and to be sure it probably should be measured by some precise instruments...

Thanks Andy for your comment!
andylegrand wrote:
AndreiKrylov wrote:Why not to play standing?
sitting with guitar is bad for someone's back ...
A fair question given our bad backs. For me, there are two reasons:
1) my left hand position is not where I like it when I play standing and with a strap.

2) nor is the volume and tone of the guitar, due to the back of the guitar against my body. (I've a good bit of surface area)

Strictly my preferences. I have, however, moved my guitar to my right leg - when using the NeckUp, I can play free of pain and in a comfortable position.


.

Paul33

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by Paul33 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:53 pm

I've been using a Gitano for about ten years - it holds the guitar in a comfortable position and allows you to keep two feet on the floor with a straight spine. I've got 4 different ones on four different guitars ( each with different finishes ) and I've found that they rarely come off - and it's never happened within a few hours of fixing it.

dory
Posts: 1949
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:29 am
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by dory » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:43 pm

I don't like the look of the suction cup supports either. I recently developed a sharp pain in my left hip flexor muscle from using a footstool. It is better now because I caught it early, and I haven't played guitar for 4 days and have taken Naproxen. I am afraid to use a footstool again so I have ordered a Dynarette and paid $9 for expedited delivery. If the Dynarette doesn't work I will try the Neckup next, as it looks less obviously mechanical than the other supports. I feel I have no choice but to learn to use something. I have to walk, and I have been limping around. When I have been completely healed for a while I will try the footstool for brief periods, alternating with some other device. I hope the Dynarette arrives before my lesson on Thursday because I refuse to use a footstool again until I am healed. I have never had any kind of back pain, leg pain etc. before this so I think footstools may be asking for trouble. BTW, I have read that footstools are most problematic for people who are very tall or very short. At 5'8" I feel I am neither one but still have trouble. If I had known I would have started playing using a device.
Dory

Ide

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by Ide » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:18 am

I really like my ergoplay. I've been using it for 4 years now. I totally understand not liking the look though. I saw a video recently of a new rest that Kris Barnett developed, and it looks amazing. It is aesthetically pleasing and actually seems functionally better than the ergoplay as well.

skipintro
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:18 pm
Location: Derbyshire

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by skipintro » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:15 am

I've finally fitted straps and strap buttons (bottom and heel) to both my CGs and it has made a huge improvement. Lots of things much easier to play and ache and pains a thing of the past. I wish I'd done it sooner. Much simpler than all the other options. Why is it not first choice for everybody?

graceman
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:44 am
Location: Århus - Denmark

Re: foot stool ergoplay or dynarette etc.,

Post by graceman » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:08 pm

skipintro wrote:I've finally fitted straps and strap buttons (bottom and heel) to both my CGs and it has made a huge improvement. Lots of things much easier to play and ache and pains a thing of the past. I wish I'd done it sooner. Much simpler than all the other options. Why is it not first choice for everybody?
Well... maybe because of a reluctancy to make such modifications to a beautiful handcrafted CG. At least that's why I won't consider it :-)
"..don't be afraid to miss a note. Being afraid is the only way you are sure to miss it.."

Return to “Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists”