sitting posture

Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists, Aches and Pains, Injuries, etc...
AndreiKrylov

Re: sitting posture

Post by AndreiKrylov » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:20 pm

Emil Krasich wrote:Do you folks who use straps have a second button installed (and where?) or just tie the strap to the head stalk?
There were some pictures here viewtopic.php?t=35855
video here [media]https://youtu.be/TCDT0wvpkKM[/media]

Kirkland Gavin
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Re: sitting posture

Post by Kirkland Gavin » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:27 pm

There is also a position where you sit cross legged as well. I have played with the guitar resting on my right and left leg ( I Play right handed ).
As well as standing with a guitar strap.

When using a foot stool, I have read it should be 6 to 8 inches up the guitar is placed so that is angled so that the top is close to your body and the bottom is angled out The head stock will be about head level around and your picking hand should be parallel to the strings the knuckles that is. The other leg is out and supports the bottom of the guitar body. However some prefer the guitar so that the head stock is lower more straight but up a little there is also a cello position. You should have good posture but not ridged and stiff which will tense up your muscles.

Anyway weather standing or sitting you should be comfortable and relaxed and be able to reach the strings weather chords and single lines to easily access the strings and be able to stretch your fingers out without straining. Be able to play without damaging shoulders, rests, the back of your hands ect.you can do permanent damage to your tendons

Whatever is comfortable to you. Also make sure your not twisted in relation to the guitar or awkward angle there are some good music books that show correct positions and online.

hope this is somewhat helpful but most of all be aware of hurting yourself trying to play or do to much as with anything you need to build up strength, endurance and dexterity and careful when stretching your fingers out they will stetch easier when your young but will with work but slowly.

Kirk

larryguitar
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Re: sitting posture

Post by larryguitar » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:36 pm

For seated playing, I think it's important to have the guitar lean back into your chest so that the resistance from the guitar pressing into your chest makes it easier to play things like barre chords. The barre chords are pressed using the bigger muscle of the bicep and not the thumb, which will soon fatigue from putting a lot of pressure on the neck of the guitar. You can practice doing barre chords in this way with the thumb in the air, not touching the neck.

For a while, I had a tendency to be over top of the guitar, instead of letting it come back to me.

I think whether someone uses a foot stool or guitar support is not as important as embracing the guitar as I have described above.

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QuintinBulnes
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Re: sitting posture

Post by QuintinBulnes » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:50 pm

This really helps me understand the importance of comfort in order to obtain the ideal playing experience. Thank you!

Does anyone know/recommend what is the proper height of a guitar stool/chair that should be used for playing classical? I currently use a chair that has no arm rests but I find it a bit too high so I am wondering if there's anything written regarding the chair scenario.
"Si de noche lloras por el sol, no verás las estrellas."

AndreiKrylov

Re: sitting posture

Post by AndreiKrylov » Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:20 pm

larryguitar wrote:For seated playing, I think it's important to have the guitar lean back into your chest so that the resistance from the guitar pressing into your chest makes it easier to play things like barre chords. The barre chords are pressed using the bigger muscle of the bicep and not the thumb, which will soon fatigue from putting a lot of pressure on the neck of the guitar. You can practice doing barre chords in this way with the thumb in the air, not touching the neck.

For a while, I had a tendency to be over top of the guitar, instead of letting it come back to me.

I think whether someone uses a foot stool or guitar support is not as important as embracing the guitar as I have described above.
When ones properly plays barre on a good guitar he/she do not need any extra power for barre.
I took a look on my muscles and found no difference if I play barre or else... very little use of power. It is more about proper position of one's left hand, precision, and to be used to it, therefore one need some time of playing in (with) proper position.
I played (worked) 3 gigs a day 4 hours each (I had to support my family of 4) and have no problem with my hands at all, just felt very tired in general and if I would use my bicep like you are suggesting - then i would be in deep trouble. :)

By the way - I do not believe that anybody would be able to play 12 hours a day sitting cross legged , on high/low chair etc. - they would be in trouble for sure...

larryguitar
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Re: sitting posture

Post by larryguitar » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:12 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote: When ones properly plays barre on a good guitar he/she do not need any extra power for barre.
I took a look on my muscles and found no difference if I play barre or else... very little use of power. It is more about proper position of one's left hand, precision, and to be used to it, therefore one need some time of playing in (with) proper position.
I played (worked) 3 gigs a day 4 hours each (I had to support my family of 4) and have no problem with my hands at all, just felt very tired in general and if I would use my bicep like you are suggesting - then i would be in deep trouble. :)

By the way - I do not believe that anybody would be able to play 12 hours a day sitting cross legged , on high/low chair etc. - they would be in trouble for sure...
I don't know if you're talking about playing standing up; I'm talking about playing in a seated position.

Anyway, perhaps you have misunderstood me. When I say "use the bicep" I just mean that the arm is behind the finger playing the barre chord in such a way that the larger muscle, the bicep, is doing the work, not the thumb. If you use a lot of thumb pressure to make a barre, you will have a lot of trouble, meaning pain and fatigue in the thumb. I know, I had it when I played barre chords incorrectly. It's a simple matter of physiology. Large muscles do not fatigue like small muscles when performing a task.

If you execute a barre with the bicep you will see the neck of the guitar come back into your chest. Of course, I'm talking about playing six string barre chords, not two or three string barre chords, which are easier, of course. It does not take a lot of power to press a full barre, but it does require the right amount of power depending on how many strings you're playing. If you're not playing some of the strings in the barre then you can let them be muted.

By the way, my guitar is set up just fine, so that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

AndreiKrylov

Re: sitting posture

Post by AndreiKrylov » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:31 pm

larryguitar wrote:
AndreiKrylov wrote: When ones properly plays barre on a good guitar he/she do not need any extra power for barre.
I took a look on my muscles and found no difference if I play barre or else... very little use of power. It is more about proper position of one's left hand, precision, and to be used to it, therefore one need some time of playing in (with) proper position.
I played (worked) 3 gigs a day 4 hours each (I had to support my family of 4) and have no problem with my hands at all, just felt very tired in general and if I would use my bicep like you are suggesting - then i would be in deep trouble. :)

By the way - I do not believe that anybody would be able to play 12 hours a day sitting cross legged , on high/low chair etc. - they would be in trouble for sure...
I don't know if you're talking about playing standing up; I'm talking about playing in a seated position.

Anyway, perhaps you have misunderstood me. When I say "use the bicep" I just mean that the arm is behind the finger playing the barre chord in such a way that the larger muscle, the bicep, is doing the work, not the thumb. If you use a lot of thumb pressure to make a barre, you will have a lot of trouble, meaning pain and fatigue in the thumb. I know, I had it when I played barre chords incorrectly. It's a simple matter of physiology. Large muscles do not fatigue like small muscles when performing a task.

If you execute a barre with the bicep you will see the neck of the guitar come back into your chest. Of course, I'm talking about playing six string barre chords, not two or three string barre chords, which are easier, of course. It does not take a lot of power to press a full barre, but it does require the right amount of power depending on how many strings you're playing. If you're not playing some of the strings in the barre then you can let them be muted.

By the way, my guitar is set up just fine, so that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Good for you Larry.
Playing sitting or standing 6 strings barre (or whatever) make no difference for me...
By the way, I do not have and never had any pain/fatigue from playing barre.
Good luck!

Jeffrey Armbruster

Re: sitting posture

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:22 am

Yesterday I visited John Mello, my neighbor and luthier, asking about installing buttons for a strap. He pointed out that I would have to drill at least one hole in the body of my guitar. I suppose this is trivial, sound wise. But I don't want to do it. For me, the appeal of a strap was that it was less invasive/scratch producing than other supports. (I imagined that you could just glue on the buttons.)

I have a Dynarette knock off coming next week. But I may just stay with my good ol' foot stool. Or use the Dynarette in combination with a small rise for my left foot.

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QuintinBulnes
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Re: sitting posture

Post by QuintinBulnes » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:05 am

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:Yesterday I visited John Mello, my neighbor and luthier, asking about installing buttons for a strap. He pointed out that I would have to drill at least one hole in the body of my guitar. I suppose this is trivial, sound wise. But I don't want to do it. For me, the appeal of a strap was that it was less invasive/scratch producing than other supports. (I imagined that you could just glue on the buttons.)

I have a Dynarette knock off coming next week. But I may just stay with my good ol' foot stool. Or use the Dynarette in combination with a small rise for my left foot.

Hi Jeffrey,

Have you looked into one of these? These straps are made for classical guitars and they do not require any drilling. It might just be what you are looking for:
Thumb.ashx.jpg
It goes around your neck and the support hook goes into the sound hole.

$20.00 at Amazon: Levy's Leathers 1 Nylon Classical Guitar Strap,Black
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"Si de noche lloras por el sol, no verás las estrellas."

Jeffrey Armbruster

Re: sitting posture

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:26 pm

Very interesting. There are a couple of other more expensive versions on Amazon as well; none of them have a review or q. and a. section. It's hard to picture this; one reviewer said he couldn't get the neck high enough with this model. Quintinbulnes, do you use this? Can you describe it a bit more: specifically can you bring the guitar neck up sufficiently? I would only want to use it sitting down. Oh, and reviewers said that it put the weight of the guitar on the neck, but I assume that they were standing.

I have a Dynarette due this week; if that doesn't work I may try this. I may try it anyway!

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QuintinBulnes
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Re: sitting posture

Post by QuintinBulnes » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:04 pm

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:Very interesting. There are a couple of other more expensive versions on Amazon as well; none of them have a review or q. and a. section. It's hard to picture this; one reviewer said he couldn't get the neck high enough with this model. Quintinbulnes, do you use this? Can you describe it a bit more: specifically can you bring the guitar neck up sufficiently? I would only want to use it sitting down. Oh, and reviewers said that it put the weight of the guitar on the neck, but I assume that they were standing.

I have a Dynarette due this week; if that doesn't work I may try this. I may try it anyway!
Hi Jeffrey,

I personally have not used this particular strap. I should probably get it since it is much nicer than the one that I have. :D Mine is much more austere.

But I believe that the reviewer is correct; while this strap is very comfortable to use it is meant for playing while standing up. Not that you couldn't use it for playing while sitting down but think more of a Flamenco posture versus than the more formal/upright classical guitar.

You could add a second strap that goes around your neck and somehow add a button strap that goes around the head of the guitar and use this to prop it up higher:
Guitar strap 1.jpg
Or use a guitar sling and just move the guitar higher:
guitar sling.jpg
With that being said; it's all a matter of creativity! Let me know what you think!
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"Si de noche lloras por el sol, no verás las estrellas."

Z. Quentin

Re: sitting posture

Post by Z. Quentin » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:09 am

OldPotter wrote:A video Of Milos Karadaglic showing some students how and why he suggests a particular posture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLccwti1cnE
The link that you provided was quite informative and I appreciate you sharing it~ There were many points made that I thought to be important to a beginner.

AndreiKrylov

Re: sitting posture

Post by AndreiKrylov » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:20 pm

Honestly, I would not use both those straps. I tried that many years ago and did not like those.
QuintinBulnes wrote:
Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:Very interesting. There are a couple of other more expensive versions on Amazon as well; none of them have a review or q. and a. section. It's hard to picture this; one reviewer said he couldn't get the neck high enough with this model. Quintinbulnes, do you use this? Can you describe it a bit more: specifically can you bring the guitar neck up sufficiently? I would only want to use it sitting down. Oh, and reviewers said that it put the weight of the guitar on the neck, but I assume that they were standing.

I have a Dynarette due this week; if that doesn't work I may try this. I may try it anyway!
Hi Jeffrey,

I personally have not used this particular strap. I should probably get it since it is much nicer than the one that I have. :D Mine is much more austere.

But I believe that the reviewer is correct; while this strap is very comfortable to use it is meant for playing while standing up. Not that you couldn't use it for playing while sitting down but think more of a Flamenco posture versus than the more formal/upright classical guitar.

You could add a second strap that goes around your neck and somehow add a button strap that goes around the head of the guitar and use this to prop it up higher:
Guitar strap 1.jpg
Or use a guitar sling and just move the guitar higher:
guitar sling.jpg
With that being said; it's all a matter of creativity! Let me know what you think!

AndreiKrylov

Re: sitting posture

Post by AndreiKrylov » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:24 pm

Z. Quentin wrote:
OldPotter wrote:A video Of Milos Karadaglic showing some students how and why he suggests a particular posture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLccwti1cnE
The link that you provided was quite informative and I appreciate you sharing it~ There were many points made that I thought to be important to a beginner.
Yeah - Footstool. :D
Back pain almost guaranteed.

AndreiKrylov

Re: sitting posture

Post by AndreiKrylov » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:28 pm

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:Yesterday I visited John Mello, my neighbor and luthier, asking about installing buttons for a strap. He pointed out that I would have to drill at least one hole in the body of my guitar. I suppose this is trivial, sound wise. But I don't want to do it. For me, the appeal of a strap was that it was less invasive/scratch producing than other supports. (I imagined that you could just glue on the buttons.)

I have a Dynarette knock off coming next week. But I may just stay with my good ol' foot stool. Or use the Dynarette in combination with a small rise for my left foot.
Absolutely agree with you! Myself I have to choose what is more important - my convenience and absence of back pain or invasive action on body of my guitar...
I choose to drill :D
Guitar is only a tool for me. A tool which must be convenient to use from my point of view.
But if it is not a tool, but let say something very beautiful which I love to watch intact - then I would leave it untouched.

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