Fast and clean arpeggio

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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nattyCT
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Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by nattyCT » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:53 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm studying the song below.



At 4:00 mark, arpeggio part starts and she keeps it mostly at 140 bpm. I can play it as clean as I can up to 100 bpm and I can bump it up to almost 110 bmp by being very unclean and I've been practicing it for a week and a half. Beyond 110 bpm, my right hand cannot keep up with the tempo. 140bpm looks impossible for me with the rate I'm improving. I don't know whats wrong with me, long nails or technique or lack of practice. Can anyone guide me how to reach that rate with arpeggio?

Update: Shortened nails, having worse tones but it actually helps me to play faster. Have practiced on open string for 2-3 hours, got up to 140 bpm fine in terms of speed. However, there should be heavy training towards having a good tone and timing between strikes. My guess is left and right hand coordination is limiting my right hand tempo. Step by step I will hopefully be there. Also another problem is warming up, it takes very long for me because of my stiff forearm muscles from heavy lifting and snowboarding.
Last edited by nattyCT on Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Julian Ward
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Julian Ward » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:24 pm

Hi Natty, that speed she is playing is relatively steady and not fast, so if you cannot achieve that there is something not right with your playing. If you can do the arpeggios with no left hand movements (ie. just the technique) then it is just the combination of the two hands overwhelming your current ability. Of course it could be any number of things wrong with the actual mechanics of your technique too... If you like, film a little section of your self playing that part, and I am sure somebody will help. And yes sometimes it is something as simple as nails.
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Larry McDonald
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Larry McDonald » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:29 am

Hi NattyCT,

Are you using a descending sequential plant? Are you using free-strokes for "i and m" (she appears to be using a rest-stroke for "a")? If not, you should try these for a week or two.

Good luck,
-Lare
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Nick Cutroneo
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:45 am

nattyCT wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:53 pm
I don't know whats wrong with me, long nails or technique or lack of practice. Can anyone guide me how to reach that rate with arpeggio?
This is a loaded question without a sample of your playing. However, I'd imagine that much of the issue has to do with learning how to release the tension out of your hand while playing. You'll often hear the words "sequence" and "planting" and "preparation" with arpeggios, especially fast ones. This is all great, but they only give part of the solution. The other half of the solution is how to get the fingers out of the hand. Individual finger release simply doesn't work with speedy arpeggios (or scales...but that's something different). Understanding finger grouping and learning how to release the fingers out of the hand in a relaxed tension-free way is important. As I work with students, before they ever work on arpeggio patterns - this concept of release is worked on first in their lessons. This concept is revisited often as they develop their technique as well.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

guit-box
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by guit-box » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:01 am

nattyCT wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:53 pm
Hi everyone,

I'm studying the song below.



At 4:00 mark, arpeggio part starts and she keeps it mostly at 140 bpm. I can play it as clean as I can up to 100 bpm and I can bump it up to almost 110 bmp by being very unclean and I've been practicing it for a week and a half. Beyond 110 bpm, my right hand cannot keep up with the tempo. 140bpm looks impossible for me with the rate I'm improving. I don't know whats wrong with me, long nails or technique or lack of practice. Can anyone guide me how to reach that rate with arpeggio?
Show us a video with a closeup side view of your right hand with a camera positioned near the 12th fret area. Without a video every answer will just be a guess.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

Tremeggio
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Tremeggio » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:22 am

For me the key to playing fast arpeggios and tremolo is to have a right hand position and nail shape such that each finger experiences the same amount of resistance. If one finger is catching more or conversely not catching enough you cannot get fast smooth arpeggios. This is difficult and very personal thing because everyone’s nails and hand/wrist anatomy is different.

Nikos_Greek
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Nikos_Greek » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:25 am

Dear natty CT, there are a lot of unknown variants in your case. How long have you been playing cg? Do you practice arpeggios daily? You will not be able to develop speed, as a rule, before your technique is sound enough. For this you need time, we a re talking about years not days or weeks or even months. I used to think along similar lines in the past, and was always in a hurry to reach the desired speed level. This will definitely not work. Steady, rhythmically and musically correct arpeggios is the goal and in order to achieve it you need to forget, for a while, speed. I personally study Giulliani 120 every day for about 15 minutes. I expect to finish the studies in 3 years, but I do not place emphasis on speed. My goal is to develop technique on arpeggios per se. Speed will come in due time.

Terpfan
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Terpfan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:20 pm

Is this arpeggio ima??


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tormodg
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by tormodg » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:04 pm

Terpfan wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:20 pm
Is this arpeggio ima??
He clearly states that it is AIM, even the video title page says so. The video name is misleading.
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Terpfan
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Terpfan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:15 pm

Sorry, my post was misleading. I was asking the NattyCT if the arpeggio on autumn leaves was IMA. IMA arpeggio is tricky so I posted a video explaining the motion.

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guitarrista
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by guitarrista » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:20 pm

Terpfan wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:15 pm
Sorry, my post was misleading. I was asking the NattyCT if the arpeggio on autumn leaves was IMA. IMA arpeggio is tricky so I posted a video explaining the motion.
1. The Autumn Leaves arpeggio in question is AMI.
2. The video you posted goes over AIM arpegio (despite its text title).
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guitarist_le
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by guitarist_le » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:47 pm

hi Natty. Post a video and we can see what we can help with. My arpeggios arent perfect, but her's arent too quick. I more trouble with IMA than I do AMI. Ill try to post a vid of myself on here if I have the time tonight.

Terpfan
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Terpfan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:08 am

AMI arpeggio:
A contracts
M contracts
I contracts and AM extends
A contracts
M contracts I extends
I contracts AM extends
Etc...

Solista
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by Solista » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:10 pm

very nice technic, thank you

rfwagner
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Re: Fast and clean arpeggio

Post by rfwagner » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:51 am

Terpfan wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:08 am
AMI arpeggio:
A contracts
M contracts
I contracts and AM extends
A contracts
M contracts I extends
I contracts AM extends
Etc...
What’s the theory behind extending AM together? Allen Mathews never really explains that in the video linked above.

Richard

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