Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Gallagher
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Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Gallagher » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:07 am

Hello All,

After lurking a bit I've decided to join this project so I sat down today and recorded the first four studies of Op.35. Here they all are in one mp3 file.

I recorded this on my iPhone 8 with the GarageBand app. The guitar is a GSI Studio Series Spruce/Indian I bought a few months ago.

Feel free to comment. I really didn't work on them very much, I'm a good sight reader and it doesn't take me long to learn a piece. I did a couple of takes for each etude and chose the best. The problem is with job, family, and a small very needy dog I never have enough time and patience to really polish and perfect the pieces I play. I usually play pieces more difficult than these but these were very challenging for me nonetheless. I guess because of the simplicity each note really counts and you have to make sure you articulate every note clearly. I confess that I'm not a fan of Sor except for a few pieces but playing these four etudes today made me appreciate Sor a bit more (gee that rhymes) :D

Please click on this Dropbox link below to listen to the mp3 file

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sk8kvu3j5a8c ... r.mp3?dl=0

Thanks for listening, Steven

powderedtoastman
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by powderedtoastman » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:48 am

Hey Steven, nicely done, especially to bang them all out in one day!
On number one, one thing that jumped out at me is the "rolling" of two notes that are written as simultaneous. I think I'd like to hear them simultaneous more often than not but that's just my taste, I know rolling chords and double stops is a stylistic thing that some players do a lot of.

Anyway you're quite a good player and you have a very warm and bassy sound. I hope you'll keep dropping in to contribute to this thread!

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:53 am

powderedtoastman wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:45 am
As promised, here is my first take of Op. 35, No. 4:
...
I think the audio level was a little quiet on this one. I tried to bump it up but that only got me so far.
There are a couple places where I buzzed, especially a few measures from the end where you kind of have to simultaneously shift and jump the left hand fingers 1 and 2 from the 4th and 5th string to the 3rd and 6th, to go from D and F-sharp to G and A.
So I may eventually do a re-take with hopefully better audio level and with a smoother transition on that trouble spot.

Next up will be numbers 8 and 5. I tried to do a take today but there were just a few too many things that I wasn't yet satisified with, so maybe some time this week I'll get the practice in and get a clean take.

To be honest I'm not very fond of number 6 so I will probably put that one off for much later down the road. Number 7 I like just fine, but haven't put in much practice yet, so I think numbers 9 and 10 may also come before number 7, as I have played those a bit before.
Don't be so hard on yourself, powderedtoastman, your rendition of the #4 is quite good, a pleasure to hear :D. Of course, if you continue practising it, it can only improve and, why not, will become as good as Marek's (which, I agree, is top-notch). I looking forward, then for your V2 of this piece :D. As of me, I'm still in a "finger-fighting" with the #3... :lol:.

With this rendition of yours, the Table of Posted Records (TPR) becomes:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 22Jan19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

powderedtoastman
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by powderedtoastman » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:58 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:53 am

Don't be so hard on yourself, powderedtoastman, your rendition of the #4 is quite good, a pleasure to hear :D. Of course, if you continue practising it, it can only improve and, why not, will become as good as Marek's (which, I agree, is top-notch). I looking forward, then for your V2 of this piece :D. As of me, I'm still in a "finger-fighting" with the #3... :lol:.
Thanks Jorge!
I know anyway there's a huge difference in the quality I can produce now vs. 1 or 2 years ago, so I will keep diligently working to improve and I know I'll get where I want.
Will check back in soon with another addition to the quest!

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:15 am

Gallagher wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:07 am
Hello All,

After lurking a bit I've decided to join this project so I sat down today and recorded the first four studies of Op.35. Here they all are in one mp3 file.

I recorded this on my iPhone 8 with the GarageBand app. The guitar is a GSI Studio Series Spruce/Indian I bought a few months ago.
...
Feel free to comment.
Thanks for listening, Steven
Hi, Steven, welcome to this thread :D. I've listened, with great pleasure, to your renditions - nothing to comment, really - and, in spite of your job, family and dog, clearly, you are already an accomplished player :D. We will all learn a lot from you, I'm sure, and I look forward to your next contributions and the comments/advice you care to give us all on ours.

Concerning your next records, I would like to ask you two things that will facilitate the listening of your renditions by Members of this Forum: name them appropriately (ex: Fernando Sor - Opus 35, No. 5, or Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #5, or similar), and put them in separate files in case you want to publish more than one record in the same post. For that, and I hope you don't mind this simple explanation :), you must go into Full Editor & Preview mode and use:
  1. either the Attachment of files facility that appears below the editing field (audio files will have to recorded in wma format),
  2. or the Insert URL tool above the editing field (it looks like a chain with only two rings).
In your specific post, and using the Insert URL tool, the naming of your bundled renditions could be, for instance,Fernando Sor - Opus 35, Nos. 1 to 4.

With your renditions, Steven, the Table of Posted Records (TPR), becomes now as follows:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 23Jan19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
[/quote]
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

crazyrach97
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by crazyrach97 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:31 pm

Mmmm... I'm working with Dowland at the moment, but once I finish a couple of pieces I might have to get on on this!

Gallagher
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Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Gallagher » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:57 am

powderedtoastman wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:48 am
Hey Steven, nicely done, especially to bang them all out in one day!
On number one, one thing that jumped out at me is the "rolling" of two notes that are written as simultaneous. I think I'd like to hear them simultaneous more often than not but that's just my taste, I know rolling chords and double stops is a stylistic thing that some players do a lot of.

Anyway you're quite a good player and you have a very warm and bassy sound. I hope you'll keep dropping in to contribute to this thread!
Hey there ptm! Thanks very much for the kind words. After listening back carefully I agree with you that I break/roll the intervals and chords too much especially in the first etude. I'm going to record all four again this weekend God-willing and hopefully those intervals will be (mostly) played together instead of broken. Thanks again. Steve
Last edited by Gallagher on Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

Gallagher
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Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Gallagher » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:00 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:15 am
Gallagher wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:07 am
Hello All,

After lurking a bit I've decided to join this project so I sat down today and recorded the first four studies of Op.35. Here they all are in one mp3 file.

I recorded this on my iPhone 8 with the GarageBand app. The guitar is a GSI Studio Series Spruce/Indian I bought a few months ago.
...
Feel free to comment.
Thanks for listening, Steven
Hi, Steven, welcome to this thread :D. I've listened, with great pleasure, to your renditions - nothing to comment, really - and, in spite of your job, family and dog, clearly, you are already an accomplished player :D. We will all learn a lot from you, I'm sure, and I look forward to your next contributions and the comments/advice you care to give us all on ours.

Concerning your next records, I would like to ask you two things that will facilitate the listening of your renditions by Members of this Forum: name them appropriately (ex: Fernando Sor - Opus 35, No. 5, or Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #5, or similar), and put them in separate files in case you want to publish more than one record in the same post. For that, and I hope you don't mind this simple explanation :), you must go into Full Editor & Preview mode and use:
  1. either the Attachment of files facility that appears below the editing field (audio files will have to recorded in wma format),
  2. or the Insert URL tool above the editing field (it looks like a chain with only two rings).
In your specific post, and using the Insert URL tool, the naming of your bundled renditions could be, for instance,Fernando Sor - Opus 35, Nos. 1 to 4.

With your renditions, Steven, the Table of Posted Records (TPR), becomes now as follows:


Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 23Jan19.png


The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
Jorge thank you for the kind words and thanks for showing me the format of how to post the audio files here. I'm going to record all 4 etudes again this weekend God-willing and post them all separately in WMA format with the correct naming as you've requested. Thanks again! :D

Steve

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:18 pm

Gallagher wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:07 am
<snip> the first four studies of Op.35. Here they all are in one mp3 file.
Hi, Steve,
Many thanks for joining the group. Your interpretations are going to be a wonderful contribution. Your recordings of #1 and #2 are excellent. I especially appreciated your articulation and phrasing in #2 and clarity of the melody line. In #3, I think that if you play it a few times with a metronome, it will help clean some timing problems. Again, #4 stood out because of the very clear delineation of the melody. Your playing is clean, and your contributions are a real asset, especially in giving us some ideas for interpretation.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Alexander Kalil
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Alexander Kalil » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:11 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:53 am
I'm curious, do you still find it difficult to hear my renditions without distortion?
Jorge, currently I can only listen through lowly laptop speakers so almost everything sound distorted. I'm on leave with no access to my sound system and instruments for a few weeks. As soon as I get back I'll listen again and report to you.

Gallagher wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:07 am
Please click on this Dropbox link below to listen to the mp3 file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sk8kvu3j5a8c ... r.mp3?dl=0

Thanks for listening, Steven
Thanks for posting. All four of them are pleasurable to listen to.

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Jorge Oliveira
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Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:56 pm

Dear Friends:

This is the first monthly statistics concerning our participation in this thread. It starts with January 2019 and from now on I'll publish similar graphics at the end of each month. This will provide us all with an idea of how the project is going.

The first graphic depicts the posts published by all participants so far.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 35 thread - Jan_2019.png

An healthy number of participants in this starting month of Sor's Opus 35 Project, as you can see :D.

The graphic that follows represents the daily ramp up of posts and views in January 2019.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 35 thread, posts and views - Jan_2019.png

Quite a good start, indeed :D.

As for records posted in January, they are shown in the graph below - 15 altogether, not bad either... :D

Monthly Posted Records, Jan19-Dec19.png

The following graph presents the Table of Posted Records (TPR) as of January 31st, 2019. Altogether, seven Forum Members have posted their renditions in this past month, and I hope this number will increase along the way.

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 31Jan19.png

Please notice the grading line showing the Elementary, Novice , Intermediate and Advanced Intermediate pieces in the Opus 35. Please notice also that this is just a picture file. However, by pointing at any individual cell in the corresponding TPR Excel file stored in my Google Drive, the reader is directed to the corresponding post in this thread where he will have available not only the audio file but all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.

Finally, the next graphic depicts the total number of monthly posts and views in this Topic in this last January.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 35 thread - Montlhy Posts &amp; Views_Jan19-Dec19.png

And this is all for this past month. I thank you all for your support to this Project.

Best regards,

Jorge
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

SleepyheadRooster
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Location: Oregon

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by SleepyheadRooster » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:46 am

Gallagher wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:07 am


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sk8kvu3j5a8c ... r.mp3?dl=0

Thanks for listening, Steven
Thank you for sharing this. Very nice playing! I’ve got 1-3 under my fingers and plan to work on 4 this week. Your playing is good inspiration and a model for making these musical.
Best,
Chuck

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:22 am

I'm posting Sor's Opus 35 #3 (V1) below. This piece is classified as Elementary. The learning period, which refers to the dates I started with the piece and the day I considered it to be fully memorized and “in my fingers”, was: 20Nov18 - 15Jan18 (more or less). The piece has a couple of repeats and the assigned Tempo is Larghetto. I looked at the Wikipedia and also at my iPhone metronome and, today, it means to play it at 1/4 = 50–54 bpm. I settled at 1/4 = 60 bpm (Adagio), as, even in the upper limit of the Larghetto, 1/4 = 54 bpm, it was too slow for me to be able to keep a steady rhythm. Comments are welcome.

The record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects to the iPhone via a Lightning to 3.5 mm Headphone Jack Adapter. The guitar used was my Ryoji Matsuka No.50 (1976), fitted with Knobloch Actives Carbon CX, High Tension strings. The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma and .mp3 files below. Apart from cutting and splicing the audio wave file to eliminate some not so well succeeded sections, no special effects were added during the recording and editing sessions.

Concerning this piece I would like to say a couple of things that may be useful for those still studying it:
  1. One should refrain ourselves from playing too fast. It is a Larghetto with its inherently nostalgic, pungent but also occasionally strong, marked, mood (see, for instance the Larghetto alla Siciliana by Ferdinando Carullu, Opus 241 #42).
  2. If you play it too fast, then you will be in trouble in the 16th notes of mrs.19-20 (in the edition at Delcamp's archive, these notes are even faster, 32nd notes). In fact, in most of the videos I've seen of this piece, most of the times the player resorts to introducing slurs or other ornaments to disguise the fact that they simply cannot pluck the four 16th notes separately.
  3. Finally, one must be careful stop appropriately the bass open notes of mrs.1-4 and mrs.17.20, otherwise they will keep on ringing and interfere with the bass open note that follows. In my first record I did not pay attention to this and the result was awful :).
Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #3 (V1).wma
Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #3 (V1).mp3


The Table of Posted Records (TPR) becomes the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 05Feb19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

powderedtoastman
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:15 am
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by powderedtoastman » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:48 am

Great start Jorge! You've got all the notes under your fingers and a good tone under control.
To my ear I think you're missing most of the the dotted rhythms... You'll have to think of the pairs as a set of four 16th notes, which you can count 1-e-and-a, giving each of those four syllables equal time of course. Then the dotted 8th note should last for "1-e-and" while the 16th note will be the last "a." In this rendition it sounds closer to two 8th note beats.

The other thing that I think needs attention is the ornament in the second section. I think there are two ways you can play it. Either in first position with an open E and hammering on the F and G followed by pull-off back to F on the first string, or in 5th position on the second string.
I would practice it both ways and forget the bass note and the D for now, just work on the hammer-ons and pull-off separately until you can do them with ease, and then start to put it all together.
This one is still a trouble spot for me too! It's a little tricky to squeeze all those notes in time the right way and get them to sound strongly. Once you get to a certain part of the learning curve though hopefully you will find that you can relax your hand and put in less energy to achieve better effect, ultimately.
Happy practicing!!

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Jorge Oliveira
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Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:53 am

powderedtoastman wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:48 am
Great start Jorge! You've got all the notes under your fingers and a good tone under control.
To my ear I think you're missing most of the the dotted rhythms... You'll have to think of the pairs as a set of four 16th notes, which you can count 1-e-and-a, giving each of those four syllables equal time of course. Then the dotted 8th note should last for "1-e-and" while the 16th note will be the last "a." In this rendition it sounds closer to two 8th note beats.

The other thing that I think needs attention is the ornament in the second section. I think there are two ways you can play it. Either in first position with an open E and hammering on the F and G followed by pull-off back to F on the first string, or in 5th position on the second string.
I would practice it both ways and forget the bass note and the D for now, just work on the hammer-ons and pull-off separately until you can do them with ease, and then start to put it all together.
This one is still a trouble spot for me too! It's a little tricky to squeeze all those notes in time the right way and get them to sound strongly. Once you get to a certain part of the learning curve though hopefully you will find that you can relax your hand and put in less energy to achieve better effect, ultimately.
Happy practicing!!
Thanks for listening and commenting on my rendition of the #3, powderedtoastman. You are fully right concerning the high dotted notes, I didn't split these pairs into four 16th notes - as should have - and the result is that the transitions to the next beat are not as sudden as they should be. To tell you the truth, after listening to my record I suspected I was not doing it correctly and even went back to my guitar to check. But then, it was already late in the evening, almost time to go to bed, and I really wanted to believe everything was ok :oops:. Any way, once I'm aware of the timmings, this will not be difficult to correct.

The ornament in the second section, though, will not be so easy. As of now, I'm aware that I'm putting too much energy, volume and tension in these notes, which even goes against the mood of the piece. As you say, I'll have to train these notes separately (btw, this is a situation a bit similar to one with the fast notes in m.38 and m.42 of the piece #16 of Opus 60, I had to practice them separately for a long time before I could play them in a reasonable way, though they not always come out correctly, still). I'll then post a second version of this #3 but, meanwhile, I'll resume the #4, which I looked into for the first time in 28-Nov-1918 :D.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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