Reading from scores during the concert?

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:38 pm

I also want to make another point here. There is perhaps some advantage in learning to play without looking at your fingers.

I would also add that amongst the people who play without music, there are some who stare incessantly at their fingers on the fretboard. I find this more off-putting than those who have the music in front of them.

But at the end of the day, so long as the end result is not distracting to the audience and is professionally presented, there should not be a real problem. Having the music on a very low stand, and printed in such a way that there are no or few page turns will help in this respect.
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Rognvald
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Rognvald » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:40 pm

The bottom line is the Music and the Performance. To me, it is irrelevant whether a concert is memorized or aided by the sheet music. I play most of my gigs in combination: memorized and from sheet music. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:41 pm

Rognvald wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:40 pm
The bottom line is the Music and the Performance. To me, it is irrelevant whether a concert is memorized or aided by the sheet music. I play most of my gigs in combination: memorized and from sheet music. Playing again . . . Rognvald
Some of the great players that I have known and seen many times have done exactly the same - Craig Ogden and Simon Dinnigan both spring to mind.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:30 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:19 pm
Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:14 pm
I would take a cue from the practise of colleagues teaching piano.
What age group and years experience are they? If fairly early stages I would encourage whatever gives the individual the best chance of positive early experiences.
Its true that the industry standard is solo from memory; Starobin and occasional others have earned the right to do as they wish.
Industry standard is perhaps a curious choice of words to apply to the arts. ie. it's not really an industry and standardisation is not necessarily a positive trait. If an individual thrives by having the music on the stand, then surely that individuality should be encouraged. There is too much robotic conformity in many aspects of classical guitar training right now.
I'm puzzled Ade; you are agreeing with everything I said yet couching it as though disagreeing.
Industry is a word that is widely and regularly used - "creative industries" etc. In using it I was not necessarily endorsing it, but its such a common term that it might be more curious to query it than to employ it! I could have rambled on using more elaborate terminology but I do more than enough of that round here, plus the contribution was on my phone which encourages brevity, if not wit. Standardisation on its own is neither positive nor negative, its what we do with it. Within guitars as a family there is a standard which we agree, more or less, to call classical; it involves various thing that give a result. I did actually say that the individual should be encouraged to do what is best for them, and that some very advanced players use the music and nobody questions them (I've also seen Bream and Williams amongst others, quite apart from witnessing Starobin positively dancing along a whole long spread of pages on several stands - standing up of course :shock: ).
For the record, probably every single recital I ever gave a music stand was used at least once. Often for my own stuff which I couldn't be bothered to memorise apparently :oops: !
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Adrian Allan
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:44 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:30 pm
Adrian Allan wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:19 pm
Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:14 pm
I would take a cue from the practise of colleagues teaching piano.
What age group and years experience are they? If fairly early stages I would encourage whatever gives the individual the best chance of positive early experiences.
Its true that the industry standard is solo from memory; Starobin and occasional others have earned the right to do as they wish.
Industry standard is perhaps a curious choice of words to apply to the arts. ie. it's not really an industry and standardisation is not necessarily a positive trait. If an individual thrives by having the music on the stand, then surely that individuality should be encouraged. There is too much robotic conformity in many aspects of classical guitar training right now.
I'm puzzled Ade; you are agreeing with everything I said yet couching it as though disagreeing.
Industry is a word that is widely and regularly used - "creative industries" etc. In using it I was not necessarily endorsing it, but its such a common term that it might be more curious to query it than to employ it! I could have rambled on using more elaborate terminology but I do more than enough of that round here, plus the contribution was on my phone which encourages brevity, if not wit. Standardisation on its own is neither positive nor negative, its what we do with it. Within guitars as a family there is a standard which we agree, more or less, to call classical; it involves various thing that give a result. I did actually say that the individual should be encouraged to do what is best for them, and that some very advanced players use the music and nobody questions them (I've also seen Bream and Williams amongst others, quite apart from witnessing Starobin positively dancing along a whole long spread of pages on several stands - standing up of course :shock: ).
For the record, probably every single recital I ever gave a music stand was used at least once. Often for my own stuff which I couldn't be bothered to memorise apparently :oops: !
Fair enough - whatever works.

I'm only thinking that perhaps if there is a requirement for all students to play from memory in a competition or a conservatory, it might exclude that one person who has great skills, and is potentially a great artist, but performs best with the music there as a back up.
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by a human » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:07 pm

Our local symphony and conductor always have a score.
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rg.2714
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by rg.2714 » Sun May 27, 2018 7:14 pm

I often play at restaurants or coffee places... I play non-stop anywhere from 2-4 hours... Obviously it's impossible to memorize 4 hours worth of music so I always have the music in front of me... However I do have most of the music about 70-80% memorized and the sheet music only serves as a safety net in case I forget something on the spot.. many of the easier pieces I sight read but some pieces that are longer and have +5 pages I do have to memorize and just leave the music open in the part where I know I have the most trouble. I do also tend to use a fully adjustable music stand instead of the traditional ones to avoid the papers blocking the view of anyone that wants to watch.
Last edited by rg.2714 on Mon May 28, 2018 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun May 27, 2018 9:11 pm

why not? if someone will play brilliantly - does it really matter from score or from memory?
or if someone will play brilliantly from score and another will play from memory, but not good - people still will insist that playing from memory is the best?
I'd better speak by music...Please listen my guitar at Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, etc.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Tue May 29, 2018 2:53 pm

rg.2714 wrote:Obviously it's impossible to memorize 4 hours worth of music ...
That's nonsense.

For instance, cellists are known to perform Bach's six suites (which clock in at around 2 hours and 40 minutes) in their entirety. Do you imagine that they don't also have a couple of concerti and a few sonatas in memory too? That easily takes one over the four hour mark.

Guitarists are no different - even a youngster fresh out of college probably has at least the Aranjuez learned (c.23m), maybe the Villa-Lobos' Preludes (20m) and a couple of sonatas, say by Giuliani (11m) and Jose (22m). Add to that the ubiquitous Bach, perhaps the Prelude, Fugue and Allegro (11m) or Chaconne (12m).

That's close to an hour and a half without even trying ... from a newcomer, for a professional four hours is a doddle.

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Anthony Campanella
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Anthony Campanella » Wed May 30, 2018 12:17 pm

Just because we may have memorized 4 hrs worth in the past doesn't mean that they are all ready to perform at a given event

While we may do a great job of sight reading, we only begin to finesse the work after its memorized

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed May 30, 2018 2:26 pm

Anthony Campanella wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 12:17 pm
Just because we may have memorized 4 hrs worth in the past doesn't mean that they are all ready to perform at a given event ...
Not sure - are you replying directly to me Anthony?

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Anthony Campanella
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Anthony Campanella » Wed May 30, 2018 3:49 pm

Mark, not specifically, this is an open air forum, just throwing some thoughts around

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Reading from scores during the concert?

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed May 30, 2018 4:33 pm

Anthony Campanella wrote:Mark, not specifically, this is an open air forum, just throwing some thoughts around
OK.

On the memory aspect in general - while it may be true that not everything in memory is immediately mechanically ready to go it is still retained if it's been properly learned - I can't even think of how one might forget it except through some kind of brain problem.

When I played regularly I had three different 180 minute sets at my fingertips - I wasn't unusual in that regard and I know of at least one other person here that has a similar repertoire. Nowadays I'm limited (due to a series of accidents which have impacted on the mechanics of my technique) there are some pieces that I'm physically unable to play - but that doesn't cause them to disappear from memory - why would it?

I would expect to be able to present about half of my old repertoire "off the cuff" and while the rest might require a "brush-up" with a few steady runs through none of it would require sheet music.

What I'm saying is this - we just seem to go on learning more and more pieces over time - the bucket never gets full.

One thing that I have noticed more recently - it's very difficult to learn something new when I'm tired. I have to work on fresh repertoire first thing in the morning or it doesn't stick long term.

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