[H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

This is for recordings which have fallen into the public domain, that is to say, which were published more than 50 years ago.
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This is for recordings which have fallen into the public domain, that is to say, which were published more than 50 years ago.

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Lovemyguitar
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by Lovemyguitar » Fri May 20, 2016 4:11 am

Ah, I love that! Marvellous!

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David Norton
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by David Norton » Fri May 20, 2016 12:30 pm

zupfgeiger wrote:Wonderful rendition. Segovia in his prime. If the footage is from 1930 the guitar can't be his Hauser. Headstock looks more like his Manuel Ramirez. But great sounding anyway.
It was done in the early 1950s. That's the Hauser for sure. Photos of Segovia in 1930s show a very different hair style and coloring.
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First person to complete the Delcamp "Let's Learn Sor Op. 60" project

Marshall Dixon
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by Marshall Dixon » Wed May 25, 2016 12:50 am

spcsxy wrote:I can't open the link :x
That is a fantastic recording! I had never seen it before. I hope you were able to open that link.

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spanishguitarmusic
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by spanishguitarmusic » Wed May 25, 2016 1:28 am

Wow very nice video of Andres Segovia! I really enjoy watching these old videos of him, very classic! These are time pieces to be enjoyed for ever! Thanks for posting it. :merci:

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djajasoekarta
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by djajasoekarta » Sat May 28, 2016 11:19 am

This is not Segovia, it's a recording of Fernando Sor himself!
'The woolen cloth of his suit made me question the value of Chinese silks. His fountain pen made me ashamed of my writing brushes and Chinese writing paper' - Puyi

'I don't write music to be difficult, only to be more like itself' - Harrison Birtwistle

PeteJ
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by PeteJ » Wed May 09, 2018 10:40 am

I feel he spoils the rhythm for the sake of an intrusive and idiosyncratic rubato. I never did 'get' Segovia and wouldn't be happy playing the piece like this. A matter of taste, of course, and maybe it's just me.

PeteJ
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by PeteJ » Thu May 17, 2018 11:03 am

Darn it. I just don't get Segovia. Is this really a good performance? The rhythm is lost and there's no flow. Where's the elegance? Is this just me or do others struggle with Segovia's approach? It feels almost heretical to be critical but I cannot enjoy this performance.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 pm

PeteJ wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 11:03 am
Darn it. I just don't get Segovia. Is this really a good performance? The rhythm is lost and there's no flow. Where's the elegance? Is this just me or do others struggle with Segovia's approach? It feels almost heretical to be critical but I cannot enjoy this performance.
Well the important thing is that it is an amazing historical resource to be able to see and hear this - were we able to see and hear Tarrega, Sor, Dowland ... just think! And of course there is no way of knowing how we would feel about their performances if we heard them.
This is different in the sense that its a player recording a piece well over a century after the composer's decease, so its a record of the artist's take on a particular piece, on that day in that place, for that purpose. So for instance the fact that its all over in some three 1/2 minutes, with no repeats, perhaps that is all the programme makers gave him if we were to see it in context. One would need to hear it on LP to see what he does there.

But certainly, I for one have always massively struggled to sit through a performance such as this. Of course, the command of the instrument is magisterial (OK, its not actually that hard a piece in the big scheme of things), but yes all the Segovia traits are present, the lingering, the rushing, the personalisation of the material. Aside from the technical command, an anonymous player just playing like that e.g. at a competition or masterclass would get very seriously dealt with - and rightly so. It may or may not have been musically 'right' back when this recording was made, but probably literally anyone today who works at a decent level in the profession (aside from anybody who avowedly tries to imitate Segovia's exact style, which would be an extremely minority interest) would regard those liberties as orders of magnitude too great - and I would certainly agree with them. Of course, Segovia had long ago earned the right to do what he liked with what he played - and of course that is exactly what he did.
But no, it is not heretical to say you cannot enjoy this performance, Pete. I expect some players in the wider world and perhaps some 'Campers will say they love it that way and hate it if its played according to more normal habits of musical interpretation. And we can all respect the achievements of Segovia and all he did for us, without been required, more than half a century later, to enjoy how he played a particular piece.
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segobreawill
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by segobreawill » Thu May 17, 2018 10:36 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 pm

Well the important thing is that it is an amazing historical resource to be able to see and hear this - were we able to see and hear Tarrega, Sor, Dowland ... just think!
Exactly, I've often thought about what it would be like to have recordings of Tarrega, Sor, Giuliani, etc. For one, I believe we'd appreciate the fact that we had them.

We have to remember that Segovia was in those days constantly working at "selling" the guitar in order to get composers interested in writing for it, as well as getting people interested in learning it. So, it could be - perhaps - that his performance was geared towards displaying the guitar's vast sonorous capabilities.
Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 pm

Of course, Segovia had long ago earned the right to do what he liked with what he played - and of course that is exactly what he did. ... And we can all respect the achievements of Segovia and all he did for us, without been required, more than half a century later, to enjoy how he played a particular piece.
Yes, I agree that we can opt to not like how he played a piece and yet STILL have respect for the man and everything that he did for the world of the guitar.

PeteJ
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Re: [H] Andres Segovia - Fernando Sor - Variations opus 9

Post by PeteJ » Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 am

All good and fair points. Sorry to be curmudgeonly. I only saw him once but learnt a lot from the performance, especially his ability to find so much space between phrases. Someone here mentioned that he was very careful not just with the beginnings but with the ending of his notes and I learnt something valuable from that remark, which seems to be true.

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