D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

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Jean-François Delcamp
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D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:13 pm

Hello everyone,
Please start by downloading the new version of volume D03 that I updated today.
If you are new to the course, please read this message to familiarize yourself with the conditions for participating in the lessons. You should also read the first message in lesson 1, where you will find advice on how to make the most of your study time and on the methods of practising that I recommend.




Today, we're going to work on a series of exercises.
- page 91 Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) LEGATO STACCATO
- page 92 Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) GLISSANDO
- pages 96-97 Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) MORDANTS ET TRILLES
:idea: :arrow: Level D02-D08, Ornaments in baroque music
When changes of position are needed, you will be using the "position shift" technique. Position I is the left hand position where the index finger (1) is placed behind the 1st fret, position V is the hand position where the index (1) is placed behind the fifth fret, etc. The position shift involves moving the left hand along the neck, from position to position, from fret to fret. In the scales we're looking at today, notice that my first finger never leaves the first string, I use it as a guide for my hand. Position shifts are shown by oblique lines linking two fingering indications given for the same finger.
The following videos are for numbers 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 37, 38, 39 and 40. Concentrate your practice on the passages highlighted in yellow, and do your best to perfect the position shift technique.














Finally, we'll look at 4 pieces, pages 15 and 19.
Gaspar SANZ (1640-1710) LAS HACHAS
Gaspar SANZ (1640-1710) LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA





I ask you first to work on all these exercises and pieces for one week and then to post your recordings on the forum for:
- page 97 numéro 39 Jean-François DELCAMP (1956) MORDANTS ET TRILLES
- page 19 Gaspar SANZ (1640-1710) LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA



Good luck!


I thank Geoff (GeoffB) who has helped in the translation of my lessons into English.


Jean-François

---

Exam qualifying submissions:

MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Jack Jarrett
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Stewart Doyle
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

RossStep
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Coen van Dijk
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Ned Henderson
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Goran Penic
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Marko Räsänen
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Richard Judge
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Mark Bacon
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA

Richard Lawrence
MORDANTS ET TRILLES
LA MIÑONA DE CATALUÑA
:( + ♫ = :)

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Coen van Dijk » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:33 am

Dear fellow students and mr Delcamp,
I tried both pieces yesterday evening and have a question about the fingering in LAS HACHAS, measure 10.
The C is played with the 3rd finger. When respecting its value, it would have to sound untill and including the A in this measure. I found it very difficult, or better impossible, to hold the C with 3rd and then play the G and A with the 4th finger. Is this done on purpose in order to make the LH stretch? :shock:
If not, what do you think about my fingering shown below in red. This makes holding the C and playing the G and A easier. I noticed mr Delcamp is very strict and accurate in his fingering, but I wonder if an error might have slipt in here.

Secondly, I was wondering what the purpose of the rest is at the end of each measure. When respecting the note values of the bass line all sounds in the bass line are already dead before the start of the rest. I noticed this happens in other pieces too and I think I am missing something...Can somebody clarify?

Thanks for your comments.
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Mark Bacon
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Mark Bacon » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:55 pm

Coen,

This is a good question and a keen observation. I'll give my opinion (notice I like to say opinion and not answer since I'm no authority on the matter) about the rests first since it's a little more straightforward. The quarter rests must be present to complete the bass voice quite simply. Not putting it there would mostly be bad form, but also...it's just an assumption on your part that the dotted quarter note has indeed finished sounding. A great player (NO offense meant to you!!) playing on a concert level guitar (NO offense to your guitar either!!) might feel differently! :o It could come into play harmonically (although not in this case) should the 4th beat have been dissonant with C. Hope this helps.

Now on to the fingering question. Your alternative is a good one and I think I may indeed play it that way even though it may be a little trickier. Clearly our instructor has used his 3rd finger for the bass note. Since this piece moves pretty quickly such a fingering would likely shorten the base note in a way that would be meaningless to the listener. Sometimes a performer will do this (according to my own teacher). It may just boil down to a question of taste on the performer's part; whether he or she prefers a bit of a stretch (in your case) or a quick position shift (as in M DelCamp's fingering). It bears repeating though that neither really affect the piece negatively.

(Contrast that with many performances of Bach Cello Suite Number 1 seen on YT. Many performers will often play a bass note for only the first beat of a measure in order to ease fingering. It really messes up the flow of the piece-a bass note in that piece should either ring or 2 beats or more or be omitted altogether).

Mark

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Coen van Dijk » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:27 am

Hi Mark,
thanks for your answer. It make this course very interesting!
I am glad that you agree that my fingering would respect the note values better. I am always trying to understand how to play a piece the way the composer meant it, in case I once would like to play a piece that is not on this forum, or not on you-tube :wink: . I agree that ofcourse there is also freedom of interpretation and that great guitar players may have their reasons for playing something else than what is written. But, since I am far from a great player, I am satisfied with getting to play a piece the way it was written. But then a fingering as suggested by Mr Delcamp makes me uncertain about my musical knoledge, so I am glad that you agree with me.

However, I made a small mistake in my first reply. The C in measure 10 should actually sound untill and including the second D, so even longer that I suggested before: it is a dotted half note, which means it last three quarter notes, or, one quarter note and and four eigth notes. This means, the rest in the bass line is actually exactly on the spot it should be. A guess the rest just emphasises the actual note value of the bass line and replaces a damping sign.

Secondly, probably Mr. Delcamp uses the position shift because this is easier for US as D03 students. I guess he would have no problem with my suggested fingering, but maybe this is more a D04 fingering. The strech is pretty though using my fingering. But for me it is impossible if I use mr Delcamp fingering and then NOT shift positions, like I did at first. Before I wrote my last reply I only watched the video once. I did not notice mr Delcamp position shift. I tried it last evening and it is a lot more easy than my fingering.

So I guess the question for me is, should I practice the position shift and kill the bass line too early (even if you wont hear it if you play the piece fast) or, shall I practice a strech and respect the note value. I guess the answer Mr Delcamp already gave in his video....And I think I am satisfied with just understanding...On the other hand practicing a strech wont hurt either (well, it will, but you know what I mean :lol: )

Thanks,
Coen

Richard Judge

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Richard Judge » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:34 pm

There is a post here from M. Delcamp post showing the original music in TAB form.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=48392
I have done a little history search about Gaspar Sanz and found this interesting article with particular mention of tuning.
http://www.guitarramagazine.com/GazparSanz
From my quick research this morning the Baroque Guitar had only five courses (of 2 strings) with a rentrant tuning that accomodated the ringing of the open strings.
Gaspar Sanz introduced a playing that mixed both rasgueado (Strumming) and punteado (plucking).
Looking at the timing marks on the TAB in M.Delcamp post there is no indication that the piece is in two voices but open strings would probably have been left to ring. (Do Baroque guitars have similar sustain to a modern guitar?)
I'm not sure now where I'm going with this. I guess the point is that the original would have been played on a different instrument with easier fingering and the idea of separate bass and treble voices may not have been so important.
Doesn't really help with our fingering problem other than to say don't worry too much it probably didn't sound like that anyway. :roll:

Mark Bacon
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Mark Bacon » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:20 pm

Coen van Dijk wrote:Hi Mark,

...However, I made a small mistake in my first reply. The C in measure 10 should actually sound untill and including the second D...

Thanks,
Coen
I'm not purposely being a stickler, but you mean F and not D, right? And if so it would be "up to" but not "including". :bye:

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Coen van Dijk » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:59 am

:oops:
Yes, that is what I meant, you stickler :lol:

Jack Jarrett

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jack Jarrett » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:53 pm

Here are my first posts
[media]https://youtu.be/iMe_RK-2EHs[/media]
[media]https://youtu.be/k0tZOlntG-I[/media]

Stewart Doyle

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Stewart Doyle » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:51 pm

:bravo: Jack - I thought I might have been first to post, but you've beaten me to it. I'm finding this piece and exercise quite tough, but I'm hoping some regular practice will help reduce the tension and improve the fluidity....

Gaspar Sanz - La miñona de Cataluña
[media]https://youtu.be/KuQmVtG212I[/media]

D03 mordants et trilles n39
[media]https://youtu.be/B2xg39iNscs[/media]

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Goran Penic
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Goran Penic » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:04 am

Jack and Stewart :bravo:
Very good.
I am still not satisfied with my performance of Trilles. :chaud:
:bye:
Guitar: Mirko Hotko 1989
Strings: D'Addario EJ46TT Pro Arte Dynacore Hard Tension
Recorder: Olympus LS-20M

Richard Judge

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Richard Judge » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:19 am

Jack and Stewart
Good work, I am finding these deceptively tricky.

Coen Have you considered a bar at the third fret for fingering puzzle in Las Hachas?
Play the C with 1 and the E with 3 on the second string and the F with 4 on the second string. Then the G is played with the barre and A played with 3. Then similar on the descending notes. It's not too tricky as the barre has only to play the 1st and 5th strings so you can use a kind of bridged barre. the onkly issue I can see is gettimng the barre in place when playing up to tempo.

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Coen van Dijk » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:23 pm

Jack and Stewart very good first posts!
Stewart, I like the way you did some extra trills! I think in baroque music you are suppossed to play more than is wriiten so: :okok:

I guess the difficulty with the thrills is to get them always sound to same in terms of clarity and speed. Or at least that is what my problem is...
In case anybody missed.: In the link mr Delcamp gives he suggests to place the LH thumb directly under the fingers that are doing the thrill in order to gain more controll. It helps for me....

Richard, thanks for your links and thoughs, I only just saw then now.
I just tried you suggestion about using the barree and I liked it a lot. I tried it like this: I play the last D in measure 9 with the 3rd finger and shift into your barree in measure 10 leaving the 3rd finger on the 2nd string as a guide. The last E in measure 10 I play on the open string and leave the 4th finger of the previous F on the 2nd string so it can shift over the string into the first D in measure 11. This way you gain some time for placeing and releasing the barre. I found it fast to learn ,not up to speed yet mind you, but it comes pretty natural. Way better than the strech I suggested! :merci:

I guess thats the difficulty about the guitar and playing unkown pieces: So many different ways to play the same thing....

RossStep

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by RossStep » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 pm

My first attempt at a little improv. Ross

[media]https://youtu.be/GoIwd8NlQtQ&feature=youtu.be[/media]

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Goran Penic
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Goran Penic » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:35 am

:bravo: Ross. Very nice :casque:
:bye:
Guitar: Mirko Hotko 1989
Strings: D'Addario EJ46TT Pro Arte Dynacore Hard Tension
Recorder: Olympus LS-20M

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Coen van Dijk
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Coen van Dijk » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:45 pm

Ross, nice improvisation. A am very bad at improvising myselve so :bravo:
Your trills sounded pretty good too.


Here are my first attempts.
As I mentioned before, I have a problem keeping the trills consistent. I wonder if it is because my finger position is not optimal or if it is just because I need to practice more....
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