Finale and Musescore imcompatibility

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AlexRaven

Finale and Musescore imcompatibility

Post by AlexRaven » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:09 am

Hello to everybody!
Recently I saw a very strange thing. I had some problems in Musescore but I can manage these problems in Finale. So I exported Musescore file to mid and loaded that exported mid in Finale. I was really surprised! The Finale file was completely different from Musecore file. Can anyone tell what is reason? Are Finale and Musescore are totally incompatible although they have common intermediate mid format?

JohnPierce

Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by JohnPierce » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:00 am

AlexRaven wrote:... I exported Musescore file to mid and loaded that exported mid in Finale....
Am I correct that "mid" is supposed to be "midi"?

I would suggest that you export/import in MusicXML if you want to transfer the actual notation between notation writing programs. Midi is intended only for playback, not for notation, and when a midi file is created by a notation program it discards the information about formatting, pitch names, key signature, type of note (e.g., half-note, quarter-note), etc, that is not needed for playback. There is no way to represent that information in the midi format specification.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:18 am

Has there ever been a music tech topic that has created more confusion than midi? As jwp says, midi is purely a set of instructions to enable a midi instrument (usually a synthesiser) to play back what has been recorded into midi. It has absolutely nothing to do with musical notation, it is just information regarding note, note duration and note velocity (how hard to hit it).
Good luck to the OP with his software that will turn audio into notation!

try
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Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by try » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:20 am

I havent problems.

AlexRaven

Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by AlexRaven » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:38 pm

You don't quite understand me. I took Musescores pure notes file without any slurs, special notation and did that trick. Of course. i did not hope that complex things will transfer properly but this trick replaced G to H, change double sharps to flats and so on. The rhythmic structure is also change. On the web I see that one can download pdf, gpx or midi and their files in these various formats are somewhat interchangeable. Some people have said that this trick worked. So may something with my software? I hear some people load midi piano file quite correctly and worked with files. Does anyone knows midi files structure? What kind of information are transferring correctly?

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:45 pm

AlexRaven wrote: Does anyone knows midi files structure? What kind of information are transferring correctly?
Note, note duration and note velocity.

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robin loops
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Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by robin loops » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:14 pm

And a timecode (basically 'when' each note is to be played). General midi also carries instrument assignments (corresponding to general midi instrument codes) as well as parameter CC values (parameter name and setting).
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
-James-

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:16 pm

Yes. gpx, midi and PDF have nothing to do with one another. In fact, gpx appears to be the code used by global satellite navigation systems to communicate! The only file format that I know of which is designed to exchange score info between different notation programs is MusicXML.

AlexRaven

Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by AlexRaven » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:49 pm

Denian writes:
In fact, gpx appears to be the code used by global satellite navigation systems to communicate!
Gpx is Guitar Pro 6 format and can be exported to pdf and MusicXML. It is main musical editor for jazz and rock guitar music. In my opinion, it is the best soft for making guitar sheet music. But it is not free and rather costly.

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Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by pogmoor » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:03 pm

Alex, how did you create the original MuseScore file? Just to check it out I opened one of the files from MuseScore Connect (Bach - Sonata No. 1 in G minor - BWV 1001 - Presto) in MuseScore on a Mac, exported it as midi and opened it in Finale 2009. The layout in Finale was almost exactly the same as the MuseScore layout.

I more usually open midi in Sibelius; midi scores that have been entered into another music program using mouse and keyboard generally open ok. The problem comes from scores entered by recording from a midi instrument. Then you get all sorts of inexactness from the fact that it is impossible to play entirely regularly, and different music applications may display the results differently. Two programs that I think are fairly good at handling poorly recorded midi are Pro Tools (which will export a score directly to Sibelius) and SmartScore (which exports to Finale). Both of these are far from free though!
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

JohnPierce

Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by JohnPierce » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:11 am

The fact that some programs may be able to turn some midi files into more or less correct notation does not mean that midi files are designed for that purpose.

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you don't want to do it using MusicXML, which is designed for that purpose (among others), and which is readily understood by both programs?

MIDI File Format Specification 1.1 may be found here: http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~ich/classes ... format.pdf. I don't know whether that is up-to-date. The MIDI Manufacturer's Association will sell you a copy of the complete current MIDI documentation as used by them: http://www.midi.org/techspecs/.

Neither of those is likely to do you much good, since they say nothing about turning midi files into notation nor about turning notation into midi files.

AlexRaven

Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by AlexRaven » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:25 am

I have made simple experiment. I had mus which I have made in Finale myself. I exported file in Finale to xml and import this xml file in Finale. see what happens : compare original mus file and file after transform. Can any can explain me how can it be?
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pogmoor
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Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by pogmoor » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:13 am

I can't open these files; Finale 2009 says they have been created with a later version.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

AlexRaven

Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by AlexRaven » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:23 am

Pogmoor says :
I can't open these files; Finale 2009 says they have been created with a later version.
Of course it is Finale 2012 files. I'm always using latest version. Moreover , it was necessary requirement for my work in Sagreras project. I really cannot told you about upgrading your 2009 edition to Finale 2012 for free. Try Finale team official site -maybe the upgrade is free.
Alex

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robin loops
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Re: Finale and Musescore imcompability

Post by robin loops » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:36 pm

AlexRaven wrote:Pogmoor says :
I can't open these files; Finale 2009 says they have been created with a later version.
I really cannot told you about upgrading your 2009 edition to Finale 2012 for free. Try Finale team official site -maybe the upgrade is free.
Alex
Free upgrades? Updates yes but upgrades never (generally speaking). If they just gave away the new versions their would be no revenue to budget for development of new features/improvements. Upgrade for Finale runs a little over a hundred (perhaps more upgrading from a 4 year old version). As a general rule when buying audio production software it's going to cost about $100 every year or two to keep it current. But until compatibility becomes an issue (when collaborating, etc.) most hobbyists can get away with only upgrading every couple or few versions (skipping a version or two) or so before upgrading or not at all (although sometimes it costs a little more to upgrade older versions).

Another possibility (if exporting as xml doesn't work) is using a universal format. Print the sheet music in one program and use sheet music scanning feature to import into the other. Don't know how far along scanning sheet music has come but in the old days (a few years ago in computing) scanned pages needed a lot of touch up work (back then it probably would have been less work to just edit and fix the midi file).

BUT one more thing about MIDI: General midi should be cross compatible. Same note, same note durations, same instruments, etc. But one thing that will change are the ties, and voices for example. If you have a half note tied to another half note midi will only have one whole note and MIDI doesn't recognize different voices for the same instrument (it sees a bass line and melody line as part of the same voice unless each voice is assigned to a separate instance of the same instrument (in which case midi will see two independent lines altogether) . There are a few other things like this that get translated differently in MIDI but for the most part general midi is a universal language. The issues with exporting midi from one program and importing into another aren't questions of compatibility but rather limitations of MIDI itself and often more so, the limitations of the midi import feature on the software being used.

That said, there are two types of midi files (type 0 and type 1). One is compiled with all tracks and instruments crammed into a single track. This type is used for simple midi playback (good for ringtones for example) or for playing in the background situations but the other actually creates a separate track for each instrument and these are much easier to work with, edit, and for importing into other audio programs. Anyway you might try changing the type of midi file you are exporting to the other. They still might require some touch up work but I think that this might solve your problem. And finally another possibility is to export individual voices in the music and putting them back together.
Last edited by robin loops on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
-James-

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